When is "Vintage" actually vintage?

Sporky

Skipped said:

If that is the case....then once they have established a reputation.....and a rock solid career.....they will dump the highly repaired 300 year old Violin for something that needs much less maintenance won't they?

A 300-year-old violin requires no more maintenance than a new one. Possibly less as the timbers will be very, very stable.

paul_c2 said:

Not actually completely true - well its true only for violin/cello players. Viola - people don't care.

I didn't know it didn't affect viola players. Lucky bastards.

I was answering in context of the question though - for those players for whom it is an issue. I accept that that was a shortcoming in my post - I imagine most concert pianists are very happy to see a shiny new Steinway or Yamaha-Kemble (less new in that case, I s'pose).

I don't think vintage instruments (whether that means a 50-year old guitar or a 300-year old cello) are inherently more or less good than new ones. I do think you can get a good enough new instrument (at any level) for less money than a vintage one.

Voxman

paul_c2 said:

57Deluxe said:

In the car world vintage kicks in at 50 years, then you have Historic at the ton.

Does it?

That's not right.

Veteren cars: built before WW1
Vintage cars: post WW1 but pre 1930
Post Vintage: post 1930 but pre end of WWII.

The definition thats vague is Classic Car that has numerous definitions and arouses as much if not more debate and contention as vintage guitars. See here:

http://news.hrowen.co.uk/definition-dilemma-classic-vintage-veteran-just-old-cars/

Classical musical instrument comparisons are not approorite because these are entirely different on a great many levels. 100% acoustic and hand made, the craftsman have been dead for a very long time, and there is a huge amount of prominence, physical evidence and objective scientific assessment and documentation to support subjective assessments of quality, resonance, and tone.

Historical importance is another factor, plus that each eg Stratavarious violin was commissioned and given names.  In fact the handmade one off 'named' archtop guitars made by luthiors like John Monteleone for Mark Knopfler etc have much more in common with classical instruments than electric guitars ever will.  Rarity and desireability are therefore other key pieces in the jigsaw.

But trying to pin down what vintage means in the guitar world is as fruitless and unclear as trying to pin down what constitutes a classic car.  And just like cars it can be a moving target with different views.  Ultimately its what the majority of people decide it is.  When Boss made the CE1 chorus pedal they had no idea it would be regarded as vintage and desired with high values today. Ditto pre CBS Fenders, 1958-60 les pauls etc. 

Barney

I was in a music shop and he reckoned anything over 25 years old i classed as vintage...not sure iff i agree with that though ..and BTW i wasnt buying i was trading a guitar over 25 years old so he had reasons to say 

Voxman

Barney said:

I was in a music shop and he reckoned anything over 25 years old i classed as vintage...not sure iff i agree with that though ..and BTW i wasnt buying i was trading a guitar over 25 years old so he had reasons to say 

From a certain viewpoint you could arbitrarily call something vintage after a certain age but as per my previous '2 cents' post its a lot more complex.  Rarity and desireability are also part of the equation.
 
 To suggest my 1990 Les Paul Custom is vintage simply because of age would be a flawed rationale. But in another 20 years its standing might be different, perhaps because les paul production stopped in 2018 or were made from artificial wood from 2020.  Ie a fundamental change occurred to make my 1990 les paul rarer and/or more desireable. 

rsvmark

Barney said:

I was in a music shop and he reckoned anything over 25 years old i classed as vintage...not sure iff i agree with that though ..and BTW i wasnt buying i was trading a guitar over 25 years old so he had reasons to say 

So my 1986 Charvel is well vintage innit....

ICBM

There's a 1991 Ibanez Floral Jem in the shop I work for - that's 25 years old now. Is that vintage?

No.

guitars4you

ICBM said:

There's a 1991 Ibanez Floral Jem in the shop I work for - that's 25 years old now. Is that vintage?

No.

I agree that we can all have different opinions about what constitutes a vintage guitar - But by a large margin is the thought that it is vintage if it is 25 or 30 years old - On that basis every guitar can be a vintage guitar one day and we know that is bull

I started full time behind the guitar counter in 1978 and at this stage a 59 LP was only 19 years old - Yet had already received the holy grail and vintage tag - Same applied to any pre-CBS Strat with some of them barely 14 years old - So vintage is far more than about the age of a guitar

But I just wished we could all move away from this vintage tag if it is X years old - Guitars of a more recent origin can still be rare, collectible, cool, odd ball, weird or wonderful, but just not VINTAGE

ICBM

guitars4you said:

But I just wished we could all move away from this vintage tag if it is X years old - Guitars of a more recent origin can still be rare, collectible, cool, odd ball, weird or wonderful, but just not VINTAGE

Exactly - the Jem is *all* those things. But to me it will never be vintage, because it's a modern pointy Floyd HSH guitar.

That's not a put-down at all, in fact I have considered buying it, even though it's really "not me"...

johnhe

In my opinion vintage a desirable are not at all related, although I totally accept that people do often use the terms interchangeably. For me, vintage only means old. There are plenty of vintage gears I would have no interest in owning. But they are undeniably vintage. In my opinion, once over 25 years old, I think that the term vintage is fair.