MIJ/CIJ vs. USA Fender

HarrySeven

I'm aware that we have touched on this before, but I continue to be puzzled by the gradual hike in prices of MIJ/CIJ guitars vs. their USA counterparts. 

I'm not talking 'Lawsuit' (sorry, hate that term!) -era instruments or JV/SQ Squiers, etc...more like late '90's onward Japanese Fender. 

For instance, on eBay, Gumtree, etc, MIJ Offsets now often seem to be in the £700+ range.

Now, I own MIJ/CIJ and AVRI Jags - they don't really compare, quality-wise.

Your thoughts?

4114Effects

I think it's usually a case of someone has heard Japanese guitars are worth more if you sell them, so they just shove them up for silly money and then other sellers follow the trend, without doing any research as to which models it applies to. Seems to happen a lot in the selling community. 

I remember a couple of years ago the same thing happened with the Yamaha SG guitars ... I know some of the models were sought after, but everybody seemed to be selling one for well over a grand all of a sudden. Hardly hear anything about them now. 

guitars4you

Harry, I'm perplexed like you on some MIJ/CIJ prices - You obviously look at such sites far more than I do, so are they actually selling at these suggested prices or are they just on a fishing expedition - asking prices and  selling prices are two distinctively different events - Granted as new prices creep up again and again, then over  period of time it will have an impact on use prices, but with the odd exception, then surely MIJ/CIJ used models must be cheaper than an equivalent new model

I was offered a mid 80's Tokai TTE50 Tele style recently (non vintage headstock shape) - I had an opinion as to its potential selling value, purely on past experience and gut feeling - Yet the customers initial valuation was somewhat higher than mine, by quite a margin - As such I have to question my own information and am I comfortable with such potential high prices

I suppose it is like many potential purchases, in that you don't need to buy it at 'inflated prices' and continue to search until you find something more to your liking - If they find a buyer then all well and good, if not they will generally re-price

ICBM

HarrySeven said:

... I own MIJ/CIJ and AVRI Jags - they don't really compare, quality-wise.

Your thoughts?

I totally agree. I've never understood the hype about MIJ/CIJ Fenders. They're nice enough for the money but there's something missing despite the high quality of the woodwork, and even discounting the poor electrics and average hardware. Even with all that replaced there's still something missing from the feel and sound - not so much amplified, but you can feel it when you play them, they somehow lack the tightness and solidity I look for.

That isn't "American is best" snobbery - I think the new Mexican Classics have it. I also own a MIJ Strat… although it's not a Fender. And nor does it sound like (a real) one.

blueskunk

I remember when you could get a MIJ offset for about £450 ish. 

My mate was looking for a jaguar recently and was absolutely baffled at the prices of these things now. 

I had to sell my lovely USA Jag recently. Took a MIJ as part trade.  Sold it on very quickly as I certainly could "feel" the difference. 

Tbf, I am sure there some real peach Jap Jaguars/Jazzmaster but at the prices they are now, it's worth saving and getting a USA model. 

horse

I agree it's nuts. I think my 90s mij jag cost me £450 a couple of years ago, and I don't think I'd pay any more than that for one

Gassage

I'm sure it's down to Japan hosting the World Cup in 2019.

HarrySeven

ICBM said:

HarrySeven said:

... I own MIJ/CIJ and AVRI Jags - they don't really compare, quality-wise.

Your thoughts?

 ...you can feel it when you play them, they somehow lack the tightness and solidity I look for.

Yeah, I'd definitely agree with that...

matone

Just hype imho.I`ve owned a few over the years,all good enough at their pricepoint (then),none as good as two subsequent Mex Classic Players and none of them as good as the two Partscasters which replaced them.

HarrySeven

guitars4you said:

Harry, I'm perplexed like you on some MIJ/CIJ prices - You obviously look at such sites far more than I do, so are they actually selling at these suggested prices or are they just on a fishing expedition - asking prices and  selling prices are two distinctively different events...

This seller *appears* to be realising high prices for them:

FENDER JAGUAR S-SERIAL (1995) 3-TONE SUNBURST MIJ JAPAN

Fuengi

Looking at Gumtree, generally you can pick up a used:
Mexi strat for £300 - £400
American strat with case for £750 - £900 
MIJ Strats are around £700 - £850 

Americans look good value to me at the moment. 

Richardj

I've notices (asking) prices rocketing in the last six months or so. I wondered if people were looking at new prices rising and the falling exchange rate and trying their luck.

Even things like used Baja Teles, asking prices we're @£375-£425, now they are £500 odd. 

I certainly wouldn't pay that and don't see any reason to pay the current MIJ/CIJ asking prices.  It will all crash again at some point.

Jack_

People are too quick to generalise.

Some of the more exclusive paint jobs and specs are Jap Fender's so that plays a part, sometimes the Jap market gets things the rest of the world doesn't.

Gas Station Guitars is probably playing a part in the price rise of Jap Fender's, his business is basically importing them in batches, and selling them here - he's asking top money, but is also pulling in some very nice exclusive models too.

At the moment he's probably in that stage where he's a small business, but doesn't seem it, so it might seem like he's selling for high used prices, but people are buying from him because he has some rep, you'll get a proper set up, mint guitar etc... so this probably ups the the price from what the average punter could sell their MIJ/CIJ for.

Personally, I disagree with the comments about Jap Fender's about not having 'it' or 'dem feels' or whatever.

ThorpyFX

I'm not sure if this thread was triggered by my advert for a CIJ Jazzmaster.......or if its coincidence this thread appears the morning after I post one for sale. Regardless, the market seems to value the older CIJ stuff at around the £1000 mark going on past eBay and reverb sales, which although it may seem high is purely down to a supply and demand thing I guess.

Personally I think MIJ guitars are fantastic, I've always loved the MIJ Tokai's, fenders and Burnys.

It does feel that the prices have raised over the last few years... but again, supply and demand is king.

HarrySeven

Jack_ said:

People are too quick to generalise.

Personally, I disagree with the comments about Jap Fender's about not having 'it' or 'dem feels' or whatever.

Well, all I can speak from on this matter is direct comparison - I've got around 6 MIJ/CIJ offsets from '90's - '00's and none feel a similar quality to my AVRI's.

mark123

Always found the jap strats have small vintage frets and poor pick ups ,mexico reissues much better for half the price, I'd even put my classic vibe sunburst strat above a jap strat for playability and sounds 

GavRichList

Having played a few Japanese Jags and jazzes over the years, I've only ever thought they were "fine" too - relatively unremarkable. Never played a bad one, nor have I ever fallen for one. Cannot say the same for the US Jazzmaster I have now though; I absolutely love it. For perspective, I paid £750 for a mint condition AVRI 62 in Dec 15, and that wouldn't buy me a CIJ now which seems lunacy to me. I guess though now more than ever, that it's a sellers market and these are very much THE guitar to have. Throw in some custom colours which were readily available on Japanese models and demand still outways supply - sellers are entitled to ask what they want I suppose, but it now makes a Japanese Jazzmaster almost prohibitive for me, when ideally I'd love to have one as a back up. 

Jack_

HarrySeven said:

Jack_ said:

People are too quick to generalise.

Personally, I disagree with the comments about Jap Fender's about not having 'it' or 'dem feels' or whatever.

Well, all I can speak from on this matter is direct comparison - I've got around 6 MIJ/CIJ offsets from '90's - '00's and none feel a similar quality to my AVRI's.

But they're two different leagues no? I would expect an AVRI to be better than a MIJ/CIJ, I'd say the Jap stuff is more comparable to the American Standard stuff, AVRI is supposed to be another class up.

guitars4you

HarrySeven said:

guitars4you said:

Harry, I'm perplexed like you on some MIJ/CIJ prices - You obviously look at such sites far more than I do, so are they actually selling at these suggested prices or are they just on a fishing expedition - asking prices and  selling prices are two distinctively different events...

This seller *appears* to be realising high prices for them:

FENDER JAGUAR S-SERIAL (1995) 3-TONE SUNBURST MIJ JAPAN

I agree - I just don't see it selling at such prices - looking at that link again and reading it more thoroughly I quote 'Expect Fender Japan prices to rise as all production has now moved to Mexico' - Not sure why the perception is MIJ  is superior to Mexico - I think over the last few years Mex models have improved vastly and some Classic models are fine guitars for the money

Jack_

guitars4you said:

HarrySeven said:

guitars4you said:

Harry, I'm perplexed like you on some MIJ/CIJ prices - You obviously look at such sites far more than I do, so are they actually selling at these suggested prices or are they just on a fishing expedition - asking prices and  selling prices are two distinctively different events...

This seller *appears* to be realising high prices for them:

FENDER JAGUAR S-SERIAL (1995) 3-TONE SUNBURST MIJ JAPAN

I agree - I just don't see it selling at such prices

That guy is Gas Station, and as far as I can see, he is making sales, but he does get lots of exclusive colours and models, so that helps.

robinbowes

4114Effects said:

I remember a couple of years ago the same thing happened with the Yamaha SG guitars ... I know some of the models were sought after, but everybody seemed to be selling one for well over a grand all of a sudden. Hardly hear anything about them now. 

You do if yyou look in the right places.

They're still out there and prices are still rising, esp. for vintage models.

R.