The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

Brad

Cirrus said:

I have to admit, I was surprised by how well Corbyn answered questions and took the Paxman onslaught. I'd always assumed he wasn't a very smart guy and that he wouldn't be up to the pressures of the top job, despite broadly being in favour of the manifesto. But, to stay so calm and give reasonably honest and indeed nuanced answers to difficult questions like the IRA, Trident, Bin Laden... I respect that.

My concern is that a lot of people won't have time for nuance.

Regardless, it's helped clarify my views. I like the manifesto and I believe Corbyn would be up to the job, so unless something terrible happens in the next week or so I'll be voting Labour. I think he's got a more realistic and achievable strategy for brexit, and I prefer his vision for the post-EU UK. It's also the right move from a tactical point of view for me, given that the Tory candidate was only 6,000 behind the Labour guy two years ago in my constituency. It's funny, I went into the election thinking I'd vote Lib Dem, but Farron is the living embodiment of the Chicken Lawyer from Futurama.



Now if only Abbott could stay quiet and resign shortly after the election, the last of my qualms would be resolved!

Just out of interest, what made you assume those things about Corbyn at first? Was it the media onslaught or the constant sniping and undermining by those in his own party? The constant leadership challenges? Just your gut feeling? It's interesting how your perception has changed that's all.

I've heard so many people complain over the years that all politicians are the same, yet when someone different comes along (Corbyn) they don't like it (or rather they are told not to like it). Corbyn entered the leadership race purely to open up debate within the party and it surprised everyone including Corbyn that he won. Whether that is good enough grounds to become PM or be good enough to do the job at all is another matter of course. And I agree, I don't think the public do nuance which won't help him.

In a parallel universe I wonder how Owen Smith would be faring right now...

english_bob said:

Can I also say, I feel that both sides have been disappointingly slow off the mark making memes, gifs etc. based on Corbyn's middle finger gesture during the audience Q&A part of C4's show last night. 

"Battle for Number 10" indeed. 

Glad it wasn't just me that clocked that!  : 

Axe_meister

The Labour manifesto is great, IF the economy is working well and filling the government coffers. IF you are in a period of political stability (which usually means a good economy). BUT
We are still coming out of the 2008 recession, we have Brexit on the cards, which no matter which side of the fence you sit, most believe that in the short terms (next 5/10 years), will have a massive impact on our economy whilst we sort the shit out.
I'd personnaly not make any major tax changes or giveaways.

ToneControl

english_bob said:

I'll just leave this here.

https://www.swapmyvote.uk/

is that even legal?

plenty of scope for people taking advantage surely?

Fretwired

ToneControl said:

english_bob said:

I'll just leave this here.

https://www.swapmyvote.uk/

is that even legal?

plenty of scope for people taking advantage surely?

Like postal votes ....

Jalapeno

Axe_meister said:

The Labour manifesto is great, IF the economy is working well and filling the government coffers. IF you are in a period of political stability (which usually means a good economy). BUT
We are still coming out of the 2008 recession, we have Brexit on the cards, which no matter which side of the fence you sit, most believe that in the short terms (next 5/10 years), will have a massive impact on our economy whilst we sort the shit out.
I'd personnaly not make any major tax changes or giveaways.

Spot. On.

This - everything else is a distraction IMHO - Jeremy's magic unicorn shitting money everywhere, it's all rubbish !

I blame the hubris of Theresa May for this key message being lost - she's f*cked it up right royally, with the dementia tax fiasco a prime example - it shouldn't have even been an item.  The crowing of Strong & Stable like a demented parrot didn't help either. 

english_bob

ToneControl said:

english_bob said:

I'll just leave this here.

https://www.swapmyvote.uk/

is that even legal?

plenty of scope for people taking advantage surely?

Yes, I'm sure there is. I haven't used it and don't intend to this time round, but I can see how it could be abused. 

That said, if your vote is going to be registered in a safe seat for a party you don't want to vote for it's potentially less of a waste of time, and more effective in the short term than waiting for electoral reform.

scrumhalf

Corbyn nicely dissembled this morning by Emma Barnett on Woman's Hour.

ICBM

John_P said:

Bidley said:

I was all pleased about making my mind up about who I'm voting for... until I checked the polls in my area. Conservatives lead by a 32% majority. What's the fucking point?!

Even if they do win you have to vote - at the very least you will know you tried and just maybe enough people thinking the same also vote it could change.    I suspect most constituencies have more people not voting than the difference between winning and second. 

Exactly - the non-voters outnumber the winning margin in almost every election. You must vote, even if you think your choice has no chance - if everyone who thought that did vote, your candidate would probably win.

At the very least, even if your choice still doesn't win, you will have added your tiny bit of statistics to the national vote.

Not voting is one of the biggest reasons why we don't get the democracy we really should, and instead are almost always ruled by the largest minority, who frequently override the wishes of the majority.

Fretwired

scrumhalf said:

Corbyn nicely dissembled this morning by Emma Barnett on Woman's Hour.

But people like what's in the Labour Party manifesto - whether it can all be delivered is another matter. However, May continues to attack Corbyn and reinforces herself as the leader of the really nasty party.

The Tory manifesto is lightweight; the NHS is in crisis, school budgets are falling, the police and armed services have been cut and yet the debt still rises. People are suffering with low wages whilst Amazon can make billions in profits and pay no tax .. I agree Corbyn is not popular with some people, but just think what would be happening if Labour had a credible leader.  The Tories would be smashed ... unfortunately if you look at their track record in government its been poor from the failed reorganisation of the NHS, education reforms, NI for the self-employed, massive tax cuts and more U-turns than a Liverpudlian joy rider.

David Cameron can breath a sigh of relief - he moves off the bottom of my worst PM list. May now occupies that space ..

ICBM

Fretwired said:

David Cameron can breath a sigh of relief - he moves off the bottom of my worst PM list. May now occupies that space ..

And if Corbyn becomes PM, Blair better be worried in case he takes a long holiday in the Netherlands .

TheBigDipper

Bidley said:

I was all pleased about making my mind up about who I'm voting for... until I checked the polls in my area. Conservatives lead by a 32% majority. What's the fucking point?!

Me too. Here's the point (IMHO). 

If it was close, you might be tempted to vote tactically, coz our voting system rewards that in certain constituencies. If, like you & me, it's so far off it won't help, then voting with your natural preference will at least affect the popular vote and demonstrate the unfairness of the current system in reflecting what people truly wanted. 

I believe the popular vote is used to decide who gets media time, too, which is why UKIP (4m votes in 2015) gets more time than the Greens. 

The current system sucks. 

Fretwired

ICBM said:

Fretwired said:

David Cameron can breath a sigh of relief - he moves off the bottom of my worst PM list. May now occupies that space ..

And if Corbyn becomes PM, Blair better be worried in case he takes a long holiday in the Netherlands .

Excellent!!

Heartfeltdawn

scrumhalf said:

Corbyn nicely dissembled this morning by Emma Barnett on Woman's Hour.

Skewered on figures. But you're not seeing that happening to the PM because she doesn't make herself available. At least he's discussing his manifesto rather than running away from it. 

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

scrumhalf said:

Corbyn nicely dissembled this morning by Emma Barnett on Woman's Hour.

Skewered on figures. But you're not seeing that happening to the PM because she doesn't make herself available. At least he's discussing his manifesto rather than running away from it. 

Exactly ... I think Labour will have to moderate some of their plans but it's a more cohesive package than the Tories more of the same rehash.

Brad

Fretwired said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

scrumhalf said:

Corbyn nicely dissembled this morning by Emma Barnett on Woman's Hour.

Skewered on figures. But you're not seeing that happening to the PM because she doesn't make herself available. At least he's discussing his manifesto rather than running away from it. 

Exactly ... I think Labour will have to moderate some of their plans but it's a more cohesive package than the Tories more of the same rehash.

But after she wins she'll do Green papers and consult with charities and other focus groups afterwards so everything will be ok...

Heartfeltdawn

That moment when she spoke last night and said that there were bigger things than Brexit was her low point. Prior to the manifesto coming out, Brexit was her focus. It's there on all the promo material the Conservatives have sent me. After the manifesto disaster with social care, they shifted right back to Brexit. They made Brexit the focus of Conservatives tweets on Sunday. She made it the focus of her initial salvos last night. Saying that there are bigger things than Brexit whilst your campaign focus lies primarily on Brexit simply doesn't add up.

It gives the impression that all the May campaign wants to do is to shore up the usual Conservative voters and to take from UKIP. Bugger domestic issues, focus on Brexit, snaffle up those  UKIP Leavers because it's been shown elsewhere that Labour Leavers do seem to stay with Labour for by-elections and therefore it's reasonable to suggest they will do for the General Election. 

Heartfeltdawn

Brad said:

But after she wins she'll do Green papers and consult with charities and other focus groups afterwards so everything will be ok...

Aye. It's a big step asking people to trust in her to do the right thing once she's elected though. 

ToneControl

Heartfeltdawn said:

scrumhalf said:

Corbyn nicely dissembled this morning by Emma Barnett on Woman's Hour.

Skewered on figures. But you're not seeing that happening to the PM because she doesn't make herself available. At least he's discussing his manifesto rather than running away from it. 

just listening to the interview
it's a disaster

indignantly snorting didn't help

Jalapeno

Fretwired said:

The Tory manifesto is lightweight; the NHS is in crisis, .....

I agree.  But the NHS as currently organised will *always* be in crisis - they're saddled with all that off-sheet PFI debt from way back (I won't blame Gordon Brown for all of it) - that's where all the bloody money goes, servicing that debt.  Whoever is in power will have to keep pouring record levels of funding into the NHS just to stand still. Labour just spouts the Magic Money Unicorn mantra - and has no real or radical answers.

Heartfeltdawn

ToneControl said:

just listening to the interview
it's a disaster

indignantly snorting didn't help

I'd put forward this: a politician who is prepared to be grilled publicly and who makes mistakes is viewed in a better light than someone who is reticent to come forward. A public fuckup merchant like Boris is viewed more favourably than someone who denies wrongdoing for instance. Disaster interviews didn't hold Trump back in the end...