The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

Fretwired

Telegraph front page ....

ICBM

I can think of worse outcomes…

Like a deal with the DUP, for example.

ESchap

The real reason Fallon stepped down?  He said he would never work with / support the Tories.   Tories riding two horses since election day? 

Heartfeltdawn

capo4th said:

Your just mudslinging again with no points of note whatsoever.

Maybe you were drunk when you wrote the drivel above. 

I find it it hilarious that after Labour lost the election by a significant margin that you can't admit that Corbyn was on fantasy island and would have promised anything to get a vote.

Far fetched policies with no hope of being implemented.

You Sir take the biscuit. Corbyn was the leader of the Labour Party therefore I put it to you that they were his policies and he was communicating them / his views to the electorate. 

Does anyone care what Nigel Farage did or said 12 month earlier? 

Labour over promised in their manifesto and would have drastically under delivered had they been elected. Enjoy your day on fantasy island.

What a pair we make. Me with my mudslinging, you with your shitposting. 

"Maybe you were drunk" - speculation with zero evidence. Why restrict yourself though? Let's actually go with the idea that I was so strung out on crystal meth that I pissed myself halfway through writing and didn't even notice. If we assume that every post I write in the future is aided by powerful homebrew narcotics that will cause my teeth to rot, then we need to find a suitable state of consciousness for you. I'm going to settle with 'huffing Cuprinol for kicks'. 

Had he promised anything to get a vote, he might have gotten through. 

The final manifesto was agreed upon by around 80 people. These people included the shadow Cabinet and the National Executive Committee. Issues such as Trident renewal, one of the Corbyn cornerstones, ably demonstrate that the final manifesto wasn't all Corbyn. It's clear from your above gibberish that the notion of 'party manifesto' doesn't really register. You may wish to go and review some of the Conservatives demanding May now communicates with the whole party to see what happens when someone releases a party manifesto that truly is geared around one person. 

Most parties under deliver when elected. No question Labour would have done likewise and something I've not claimed otherwise. Few parties ever deliver on their manifesto when elected to office. 

Fretwired

capo4th said:

 

Your just mudslinging again with no points of note whatsoever.

Maybe you were drunk when you wrote the drivel above. 

I find it it hilarious that after Labour lost the election by a significant margin that you can't admit that Corbyn was on fantasy island and would have promised anything to get a vote.

Far fetched policies with no hope of being implemented.

You Sir take the biscuit. Corbyn was the leader of the Labour Party therefore I put it to you that they were his policies and he was communicating them / his views to the electorate. 

Does anyone care what Nigel Farage did or said 12 month earlier? 

Labour over promised in their manifesto and would have drastically under delivered had they been elected. Enjoy your day on fantasy island.

 

Labour have been accused of being on fantasy island before ... for example:

• A national health service free at the point of delivery
• An old age pension
• Sick pay for workers
• Child benefit
• Free milk for school children
• Raised the school leaving age to 15
• Improved employment rights and more paid holiday for workers
• Minimum wage
• Working tax credits
  

The list is endless ..

The problem for the Tories is they offered young people nothing .. it was just more of the same. Scrapping tuition fees would cost £12 billion and could be partly recoupled over time by a small NI type graduate tax. It's not bonkers - the UK needs highly skilled and educated people. I bet the Tories have this as a policy in their next manifesto.

As to those who are 30+ it was down to two issues - Brexit and austerity. May banged on about wanting a hard Brexit and no deal is better than a bad deal. God knows who advised her. People have jobs and mortgages - a hard Brexit will hit the economy, jobs, prosperity and people's ability to pay their mortgage. People are also fed up with austerity - wages are stagnet and whilst most of the new jobs created are well-paid there are still a lot of zero hours contracts or low paid jobs.

Corbyn's policies added up ... and last time I checked no party ever implements its whole manifesto.

Fretwired

ESchap said:

The real reason Fallon stepped down?  He said he would never work with / support the Tories.   Tories riding two horses since election day? 

Whereas Cable has experience of working with the Tories and is expendable (I doubt he'll stand at the next election).

capo4th

Fretwired said:

capo4th said:

 

Your just mudslinging again with no points of note whatsoever.

Maybe you were drunk when you wrote the drivel above. 

I find it it hilarious that after Labour lost the election by a significant margin that you can't admit that Corbyn was on fantasy island and would have promised anything to get a vote.

Far fetched policies with no hope of being implemented.

You Sir take the biscuit. Corbyn was the leader of the Labour Party therefore I put it to you that they were his policies and he was communicating them / his views to the electorate. 

Does anyone care what Nigel Farage did or said 12 month earlier? 

Labour over promised in their manifesto and would have drastically under delivered had they been elected. Enjoy your day on fantasy island.

 

Labour have been accused of being on fantasy island before ... for example:

• A national health service free at the point of delivery
• An old age pension
• Sick pay for workers
• Child benefit
• Free milk for school children
• Raised the school leaving age to 15
• Improved employment rights and more paid holiday for workers
• Minimum wage
• Working tax credits
  

The list is endless ..

The problem for the Tories is they offered young people nothing .. it was just more of the same. Scrapping tuition fees would cost £12 billion and could be partly recoupled over time by a small NI type graduate tax. It's not bonkers - the UK needs highly skilled and educated people. I bet the Tories have this as a policy in their next manifesto.

As to those who are 30+ it was down to two issues - Brexit and austerity. May banged on about wanting a hard Brexit and no deal is better than a bad deal. God knows who advised her. People have jobs and mortgages - a hard Brexit will hit the economy, jobs, prosperity and people's ability to pay their mortgage. People are also fed up with austerity - wages are stagnet and whilst most of the new jobs created are well-paid there are still a lot of zero hours contracts or low paid jobs.

Corbyn's policies added up ... and last time I checked no party ever implements its whole manifesto.

Corbyns policies added up in theory but what about the cost to business and the brain drain as people left the UK under Corbyns hit the rich regime. 

capo4th

Heartfeltdawn said:

capo4th said:

Your just mudslinging again with no points of note whatsoever.

Maybe you were drunk when you wrote the drivel above. 

I find it it hilarious that after Labour lost the election by a significant margin that you can't admit that Corbyn was on fantasy island and would have promised anything to get a vote.

Far fetched policies with no hope of being implemented.

You Sir take the biscuit. Corbyn was the leader of the Labour Party therefore I put it to you that they were his policies and he was communicating them / his views to the electorate. 

Does anyone care what Nigel Farage did or said 12 month earlier? 

Labour over promised in their manifesto and would have drastically under delivered had they been elected. Enjoy your day on fantasy island.

What a pair we make. Me with my mudslinging, you with your shitposting. 

"Maybe you were drunk" - speculation with zero evidence. Why restrict yourself though? Let's actually go with the idea that I was so strung out on crystal meth that I pissed myself halfway through writing and didn't even notice. If we assume that every post I write in the future is aided by powerful homebrew narcotics that will cause my teeth to rot, then we need to find a suitable state of consciousness for you. I'm going to settle with 'huffing Cuprinol for kicks'. 

Had he promised anything to get a vote, he might have gotten through. 

The final manifesto was agreed upon by around 80 people. These people included the shadow Cabinet and the National Executive Committee. Issues such as Trident renewal, one of the Corbyn cornerstones, ably demonstrate that the final manifesto wasn't all Corbyn. It's clear from your above gibberish that the notion of 'party manifesto' doesn't really register. You may wish to go and review some of the Conservatives demanding May now communicates with the whole party to see what happens when someone releases a party manifesto that truly is geared around one person. 

Most parties under deliver when elected. No question Labour would have done likewise and something I've not claimed otherwise. Few parties ever deliver on their manifesto when elected to office. 

Who are you kidding pal? 

Corbyns manifesto was written up on a side of A4 with Len McCluskey and Diane Abbott. They were in the Old Queens head on a Thursday afternoon in the middle of May and consumed a few shandies.

All parties under deliver on their manifesto.
The problem is that Labour would have only delivered about 5% of what they promised the electorate. They would have caused huge damage to the UK economy. 

TheBigDipper

Don't feed the troll. It's better that way. By crafting a detailed reply that shows some thought and research, you're just wasting your own life to be rewarded by insults and stereotypes unsupported by evidence that takes 15 sec to type. You're doing all the work, the troll gets all the fun. Doesn't seem right to me.

capo4th

Noted thanks for the heads up 

Heartfeltdawn

capo4th said:

Who are you kidding pal? 

Fretwired

capo4th said:

Corbyns policies added up in theory but what about the cost to business and the brain drain as people left the UK under Corbyns hit the rich regime. 

I think you'd agree that Germany is the economic powerhouse of Europe.

Explain to me why the German corporation tax rate is 29.72 percent. The UK corporation tax rate is currently 19 per cent and even after Corbyn's proposed rise it would still under the tax rate in Germany. Tell my why I don't see Mercedes rushing over to the UK to build a factory? BMW are here because the purchased Rover Group and before that were partners supplying engines.

German companies pay a comparable amount to UK firms in terms of social security (NI in the UK) and the personal tax system is similar (German basic rates are higher).

Austerity hasn't worked and the Tories don't have a plan B. If I had been a Tory minister I'd have been on the first plane to Germany to find out how they do it. I'll pick two areas that impressed me when I worked there - education and infrastructure.

The German education system is great at producing people that German industry wants to employ, especially engineers and scientists. The road and rail systems are good and public transport in the major cities puts the UK to shame. The German government supports its industrial base. The Tories couldn't seem to care.

I have no problem with raising tax - the issue is what you spend it on. The UK needs to improve its productivity and give people the skills that businesses want so we can generate wealth. This can be done through infrastructure projects, better education, scrapping uni fees, encouraging more people to take maths, science and engineering degrees, getting the City to back start-up businesses with good ideas and giving tax breaks to companies involved in R&D. More money should be spent on research in our best universities especially in the area of green tech where we are seriously lagging.

But no, the Tories want more of the same .. cut, cut, cut until we are a poor third world country. It hasn't worked ... people are now heavily in debt.

Heartfeltdawn

Fret, one aspect that is often brought up are university league tables. The Germans don't have many in the top 100: we do. Now some folk use that to say how superior our education system is. Now despite the lack of world rated universities in Germany, they don't seem to suffer that badly, perhaps because they have the immigration systems in place to attract good people from overseas. But it sounds from what you've said about Germany and from articles I've read that Germany does actually invest in things for that middle ground a lot more than we do over here, from education to transport. 

Bridgehouse

We do have to be careful not to judge the grass as always being greener..

Germany has some immense issues to face up to, not least of which is an extreme birth rate issue - they are staring at a massive problem: keeping a growing elderly population in the face of a rapidly diminishing workforce and thus a tax shortfall in years to come.

If I were a betting man, and if Brexit really did curb immigration as much as the population wants, then I think the aging population that voted for it might find there isn't enough workforce to keep the services going they demand, and eventually we will move into population free fall. 

If Germany were to exit the EU and stop migration, their population would be in free fall in under 5 years. 

"That's no bad thing, more room for people, more jobs etc". 

Well, no. Not in a global society where we compete with countries that have booming populations who are greedy for the business.

dtr

Wow, and I thought that of the two negotiations the government kicked off this month securing the votes of the DUP to keep labour out of power was the one they couldn't balls up.

Bridgehouse

dtr said:

Wow, and I thought that of the two negotiations the government kicked off this month securing the votes of the DUP to keep labour out of power was the one they couldn't balls up.

It's a smokescreen for the real deal with the lib Dems.

Gives the tories an excuse for watering down Brexit, Labour can't vote against it without looking like they want a harder Brexit. Hard line backbenchers get the whip and told they are out of a job in the election (which will be in a few years).

Vince is given a cabinet job as minister for eating his own dogshit and everyone is happy. 

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fret, one aspect that is often brought up are university league tables. The Germans don't have many in the top 100: we do. Now some folk use that to say how superior our education system is. Now despite the lack of world rated universities in Germany, they don't seem to suffer that badly, perhaps because they have the immigration systems in place to attract good people from overseas. But it sounds from what you've said about Germany and from articles I've read that Germany does actually invest in things for that middle ground a lot more than we do over here, from education to transport. 

We do have top universities, but if you look at those in the top 10 a proportion of the students come from abroad - that helps the ranking. The UK is great at R&D and discovering things, but poor at making money out of them. The German education system is basically the old British model of academic schools, technical colleges, colleges, polytechnics and universities for the academic. Outside the top universities our education system is underfunded, lacks focus and isn't as integrated as the German system. The UK is slipping down the world rankings - those with money can send their kids to a private school and top university.

Fretwired

Bridgehouse said:

We do have to be careful not to judge the grass as always being greener..

Germany has some immense issues to face up to, not least of which is an extreme birth rate issue - they are staring at a massive problem: keeping a growing elderly population in the face of a rapidly diminishing workforce and thus a tax shortfall in years to come.

If I were a betting man, and if Brexit really did curb immigration as much as the population wants, then I think the aging population that voted for it might find there isn't enough workforce to keep the services going they demand, and eventually we will move into population free fall. 

If Germany were to exit the EU and stop migration, their population would be in free fall in under 5 years. 

"That's no bad thing, more room for people, more jobs etc". 

Well, no. Not in a global society where we compete with countries that have booming populations who are greedy for the business.

The biggest problem Germany faces is automation from advanced robots -  a lot of those industrial jobs will go.

Bridgehouse

Fretwired said:

Bridgehouse said:

We do have to be careful not to judge the grass as always being greener..

Germany has some immense issues to face up to, not least of which is an extreme birth rate issue - they are staring at a massive problem: keeping a growing elderly population in the face of a rapidly diminishing workforce and thus a tax shortfall in years to come.

If I were a betting man, and if Brexit really did curb immigration as much as the population wants, then I think the aging population that voted for it might find there isn't enough workforce to keep the services going they demand, and eventually we will move into population free fall. 

If Germany were to exit the EU and stop migration, their population would be in free fall in under 5 years. 

"That's no bad thing, more room for people, more jobs etc". 

Well, no. Not in a global society where we compete with countries that have booming populations who are greedy for the business.

The biggest problem Germany faces is automation from advanced robots -  a lot of those industrial jobs will go.

And the people who want to buy the things they make.

Heartfeltdawn

Bridgehouse said:

It's a smokescreen for the real deal with the lib Dems.

Gives the tories an excuse for watering down Brexit, Labour can't vote against it without looking like they want a harder Brexit. Hard line backbenchers get the whip and told they are out of a job in the election (which will be in a few years).

Vince is given a cabinet job as minister for eating his own dogshit and everyone is happy. 

Given that some of those backbenchers managed to get the referendum happening and ultimately managed to take down a Prime Minister with an election majority, then I wouldn't rely on even a three-line whip keeping the party in order. 

I'm not sure that increased Lib Dem membership would be happy.