The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

ICBM

Well, I'll admit I was wrong...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39973399

... although they've still managed to spin it as if it's somehow something that Labour are responsible for, if you read just the headline.

ChuckManual

Another idiot Old Labour loony leftie Momentum-backed Corbynite gets her figures wrong...

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-05-18/amber-rudd-caught-out-over-constituency-house-prices/#

These pinko commie wretches are dangerous. We MUST make sure they don't form the next government!

Fretwired

ICBM said:

Well, I'll admit I was wrong...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39973399

... although they've still managed to spin it as if it's somehow something that Labour are responsible for, if you read just the headline.

I told you .. the Tories got a pasting on Newsnight ...

Fretwired

ChuckManual said:

Another idiot Old Labour loony leftie Momentum-backed Corbynite gets her figures wrong...

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-05-18/amber-rudd-caught-out-over-constituency-house-prices/#

These pinko commie wretches are dangerous. We MUST make sure they don't form the next government!

She's the Home Secretary not a local estate agent. Why not ask her a more direct and insightful question related to crime, especially knife crime , and what she's going to do  about it, and how can she justify the cut in police numbers. Or is the 100,000 limit on immigration just a pipe dream as it's been promised, yet the target missed so many times before that no one with more than one brain cell believes the Tories will ever hit it. She's not the sharpest pencil in the box - ask her some tough questions.

It's not the same as Abbott who is shadow Home Secretary and should have known her numbers regarding the costs associated with recruiting 10,000 policemen. Common sense and a basic understanding of maths should have been within the grasp of someone with a degree from Cambridge.

TheBigDipper

Fretwired said:

<snip>

It's not the same as Abbott who is shadow Home Secretary and should have known her numbers regarding the costs associated with recruiting 10,000 policemen. Common sense and a basic understanding of maths should have been within the grasp of someone with a degree from Cambridge.

She's lazy. Of course she's capable, but she's lazy. That's why she might make a decent Home Secretary, strangely - because the Civil Service will do all the work.

ChuckManual

When she was running for parliament in 2010 she posted on Facebook about she thought it was terrible that Scandinavian children did far better in primary school than British kids - and said that we should adopt a Scandinavian approach to primary education. She was applauded for this by the first contributor to that discussion, who told her that Scandinavian children were in full-funded kindergarten schools from the age of 3 and didn't actually start formal education (as it's understood in the UK) until they were 7 - and she was asked how a potential Conservative government would pay for that.

She deleted the comment, banned the questioner and actually shut down all Facebook users from posting on her page until after the election, some weeks later - and so her inability to answer the question posed by ITV News is just another indicator towards her ineptitude.

And, further to the video clip, she probably thinks the average house price in Hastings & Rye is £100,000 because she's previous described her constituents as workshy drunks and drug addicts and that she only ran for the seat because it is "convenient for London."

So, no, she's not an estate agent, but she's not much of an MP either. 

ChuckManual

Fretwired

ChuckManual said:

So, no, she's not an estate agent, but she's not much of an MP either. 

I can't stand her .. lightweight in my view. Get her on the Daily Politics show and get those guys to grill her about her role and related Tory polices. That would be a car crash interview of Abbott proportions.

Garthy

ChuckManual said:

When she was running for parliament in 2010 she posted on Facebook about she thought it was terrible that Scandinavian children did far better in primary school than British kids - and said that we should adopt a Scandinavian approach to primary education. She was applauded for this by the first contributor to that discussion, who told her that Scandinavian children were in full-funded kindergarten schools from the age of 3 and didn't actually start formal education (as it's understood in the UK) until they were 7 - and she was asked how a potential Conservative government would pay for that.

She deleted the comment, banned the questioner and actually shut down all Facebook users from posting on her page until after the election, some weeks later - and so her inability to answer the question posed by ITV News is just another indicator towards her ineptitude.

And, further to the video clip, she probably thinks the average house price in Hastings & Rye is £100,000 because she's previous described her constituents as workshy drunks and drug addicts and that she only ran for the seat because it is "convenient for London."

So, no, she's not an estate agent, but she's not much of an MP either. 

She isn't much of anything. Isn't every interview with her a car crash?

Budgie

https://youtu.be/5q3dyjlZWHA


Michael Fallon giving a vague, ambiguous and banal defence of the Tory manifesto. Smoke and mirrors as usual and not a lot of foundations being laid. Why would anyone put an X in a box for this? The Labour Party were clearly setting themselves up for criticism with their overtly detailed statement and costings but at least it gives a clear indication of where the party want to be and the infrastructure investments they wish to make. The Tories on the other hand are giving very little detail...they appear to be asking the electorate to accept the ambiguities on trust. This seems more like a tactic of a dodgy secondhand car dealer than a 'strong and stable' leadership. The only thing I am certain of in this election is that I am definitely not voting Tory.

Heartfeltdawn

Drew_TNBD said:

Face it. The Conservatives are going to be absolutely shredded in the media for their manifesto. If it isn't "the numbers don't add up" it'll be "it's going to ruin peoples lives and cause mayhem and murder" etc.. etc..

If they are going to get shredded, it's not reflected in the front page of newspapers today. The Mail practically lay down and lapped at her ankles, the Telegraph highlighted the apparent move away from free market ideology, and the Sun went with "Blue Labour" as the headline, talking about how the new Conservative movement was to link all the various degrees of social strata together. 

@Budgie Remember that many Conservative politicians including ministers had no contact with the manifesto until it was unveiled. I'm not surprised Fallon couldn't give a particularly detailed defence. The manifesto has been kept under lock and key. 

https://www.ft.com/content/b580566c-30b1-11e7-9555-23ef563ecf9a

Snap

I was massively underwhelmed by the Tory manifesto. I understand the motivation for lowering corporation tax. Lets hope that it works and increases business startups and attracts businesses, as long as they actually pay their due corp tax here. That would be a good thing.

Social care- not sure on that one.

Increasing tax thresholds - good.

Means testing the winter fuel payments - if possible, a v good idea. Wealthy pensioners don't need it.

Pension double lock - when you look at it, it does make sense.

Intersting clarity on the tack to be taken with Brexit, and I hope that it pulls the rug out from the spin created mythical hard brexit that never was.

the rest? meh.

rocktron

I expect a U-turn on heating expenditure cuts for pensioners.  

Fretwired

rocktron said:

I expect a U-turn on heating expenditure cuts for pensioners.  

No - it's popular. Only wealthy pensioners will lose it. My dad doesn't need his and gives it to charity. There's been a campaign by better off pensioners who'd prefer it's given to poorer pensioners. Peter Stringfellow tried to give his back years ago and then kick started the movement. It's about time. The money should be redistributed among poorer pensioners when there are cold snaps.

Budgie

@Heartfeltdawn  Possibly but he should have at least known if one of the major Tory policies on immigration was costed and a definite policy rather than a vague hope. If he didn't know the basics they should have probably sent a minister who had a better grasp. Diane Abbot was crucified for getting her figures wrong shortly after the reveal and the Labour manifesto is far more detailed than the Tory's.

Garthy

Snap said:

I was massively underwhelmed by the Tory manifesto. I understand the motivation for lowering corporation tax. Lets hope that it works and increases business startups and attracts businesses, as long as they actually pay their due corp tax here. That would be a good thing.

Social care- not sure on that one.

Increasing tax thresholds - good.

Means testing the winter fuel payments - if possible, a v good idea. Wealthy pensioners don't need it.

Pension double lock - when you look at it, it does make sense.

Intersting clarity on the tack to be taken with Brexit, and I hope that it pulls the rug out from the spin created mythical hard brexit that never was.

the rest? meh.

The impression I get from the Tories is that they understand that the next 5 years is going to be difficult and bleak while Brexit unfolds, and even the Lib Dems understand this to a point although I disagree with their stance on Brexit, it's like they want to be half pregnant. Labour are acting like there is a bottomless pit of money just waiting to be spent and everything is rosy  at home and that he can sit down with Merkel, ISIS and Putin and sing peaceful songs around a campfire while weaving yoghurt.

rocktron

Fretwired said:

rocktron said:

I expect a U-turn on heating expenditure cuts for pensioners.  

No - it's popular. Only welthy pensioners will lose it. My dad doesn't need his and gives it to charity. There's been a campaign by better off pensioners who'd prefer it's given to poorer pensioners. Peter Stringfellow tried to give his back years ago and then kick started the movement. It's about time. The money should be redistributed among poorer pensioners when there are cold snaps.

I understand all of that, but my perception is that there seems to be a misinterpretation of the Conservative policy. 

If one were to believe John McDonnell, 10 million pensioners would be voting against the proposed change in Winter Fuel Allowance, and for Labour, thereby propelling them into government.  That's a lot of votes to lose, unless this policy is explained properly.

Fretwired

rocktron said:

Fretwired said:

rocktron said:

I expect a U-turn on heating expenditure cuts for pensioners.  

No - it's popular. Only welthy pensioners will lose it. My dad doesn't need his and gives it to charity. There's been a campaign by better off pensioners who'd prefer it's given to poorer pensioners. Peter Stringfellow tried to give his back years ago and then kick started the movement. It's about time. The money should be redistributed among poorer pensioners when there are cold snaps.

I understand all of that, but my perception is that there seems to be a misinterpretation of the Conservative policy. 

If one were to believe John McDonnell, 10 million pensioners would be voting against the proposed change in Winter Fuel Allowance, and for Labour, thereby propelling them into government.  That's a lot of votes to lose, unless this policy is explained properly.

It's being means tested. Personally I think its showboating as I doubt many people will be affected and I bet it will be 'voluntary' .. May's after Labour voters so hitting 'greedy wealthy pensioners' will play well on doorsteps.

Fretwired

Snap said:

I was massively underwhelmed by the Tory manifesto. I understand the motivation for lowering corporation tax. Lets hope that it works and increases business startups and attracts businesses, as long as they actually pay their due corp tax here. That would be a good thing.

Social care- not sure on that one.

Increasing tax thresholds - good.

Means testing the winter fuel payments - if possible, a v good idea. Wealthy pensioners don't need it.

Pension double lock - when you look at it, it does make sense.

Intersting clarity on the tack to be taken with Brexit, and I hope that it pulls the rug out from the spin created mythical hard brexit that never was.

the rest? meh.

There's some good stuff:

NHS - inject a minimum of £8bn in real terms over the next five years.

Recruit up to 10,000 more mental health professionals by 2020.

Ambitious programme of investment in buildings and technology for the NHS.

Subjecting telecoms, defence and energy companies to informal state oversight to ensure “foreign ownership of companies controlling important infrastructure does not undermine British security or essential services”. Currently, the powers only extend to the nuclear industry.

Giving workers representation on boards, as expected, but also the right to demand “information relating to the future direction of the company”.

Instructing directors to publish their pay as a multiple of the broader workforce average rather than their own staff.

Handing shareholders binding annual votes on executive pay.

Barring large businesses that mistreat suppliers from government contracts.

Extending pensions auto-enrolment to the self-employed.

Raising the national living wage to 60 per cent of median pay by 2022.



No mention on how they'll pay for it but, some good stuff.

DarnWeight

IFS briefing report on Conservative social care...

http://election2017.ifs.org.uk/article/social-care-a-step-forwards-or-a-step-backwards

Taking the population of people in their 70s in England we estimate that, on becoming in need of care in their own home, 12-17% would be eligible for state support under current rules but would not be eligible under the new rules proposed by the Conservatives.

That's a reasonable proportion of people being adversely affected under the new proposals.  I guess the proof of the pudding will be in how many of those consider themselves wealthy enough to adequately foot their own care bill.