The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

capo4th

thomasw88 said:

at least boris can be relied upon to be serious:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/nintchdbpict000324352561-e1495028825876.jpg?strip=all&w=960&quality=100

Boris can always be relied on for fun and games he gave us Brexit.

Many people think he would make a great prime minister ! 

capo4th

Thomas you read the Sun

I am disappointed that you read that absolute rag and I now have a greater understanding of your mindset.

thomasw88

capo4th said:

Thomas you read the Sun

I am disappointed that you read that absolute rag and I now have a greater understanding of your mindset.

Though you should read everything my little troll pal. It enriches the mind.

 So Hammond's gaff today on the news about getting completey wrong figures for the cost of HS2.
Why isn't that being covered in the media?

capo4th

thomasw88 said:

capo4th said:

Thomas you read the Sun

I am disappointed that you read that absolute rag and I now have a greater understanding of your mindset.

Though you should read everything my little troll pal. It enriches the mind.

 So Hammond's gaff today on the news about getting completey wrong figures for the cost of HS2.
Why isn't that being covered in the media?

You keep reading The Sun Thomas it will probably enrich your mind. Enjoy yourself !

Myranda

So, the BBC have said the Conservative manifesto is out and focuses on immigration - had hoped to see it. But the Conservative website has nothing... 

Really hope there's more of a plan than "keep out johnny foreigner" as they're likely to do the winning it would be nice to think they have more on their mind than Brexit and sealing the boarder

Heartfeltdawn

capo4th said:

Boris can always be relied on for fun and games he gave us Brexit.

Many people think he would make a great prime minister ! 

Then it is a relief that those people weren't Conservative Members of Parliament during the leadership campaign then. 

Heartfeltdawn

Hurrah for the Liberal Democrat manifesto section on reform. Yes the shortlist aspect is debatable. But there's a lot of decent notions on there. 

http://www.libdems.org.uk/reform

Drew_TNBD

Myranda said:

So, the BBC have said the Conservative manifesto is out and focuses on immigration - had hoped to see it. But the Conservative website has nothing... 

Really hope there's more of a plan than "keep out johnny foreigner" as they're likely to do the winning it would be nice to think they have more on their mind than Brexit and sealing the boarder

Hopefully it's more along the lines of "keep out Johnny Foreigner who has no skills to bring to the table, and who might have terrorist sympathies"

DarnWeight

Early stuff coming out now regarding tomorrow's Tory manifesto.  Looks like they're relying on their poll lead being big enough to take a hit from some pensioner-bashing policies...cuts to winter fuel allowance, a 100K limit on social care funding from the value of your property.  No doubt they'll be pushing the "responsible and in the national interest" angle heavily, to mitigate some of the flak this will attract.

Drew_TNBD

DarnWeight said:

Early stuff coming out now regarding tomorrow's Tory manifesto.  Looks like they're relying on their poll lead being big enough to take a hit from some pensioner-bashing policies...cuts to winter fuel allowance, a 100K limit on social care funding from the value of your property.  No doubt they'll be pushing the "responsible and in the national interest" angle heavily, to mitigate some of the flak this will attract.

That's a bit of a mean spirited reading of what we know so far.

"In addition, winter fuel payments - currently paid to pensioners irrespective of income - will be means-tested in future, with the proceeds going directly to care for the elderly."

Sounds like a good idea to me. Don't see why all the rich old fucks should get the same winter allowance as the poor old fucks.

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Hurrah for the Liberal Democrat manifesto section on reform. Yes the shortlist aspect is debatable. But there's a lot of decent notions on there. 

http://www.libdems.org.uk/reform

Good luck with that .. Tim nice but Dim was on Newsnight .. wet as a haddock's bathing costume (Blackadder) had an event in a nightclub and then found that some of his core voters saw him as weak so they're voting for May.  It's pitched as "we know we can't win, but ..." 

I can't remember an election where the opposition party leaders were so shite.

DarnWeight

Drew_TNBD said:

DarnWeight said:

Early stuff coming out now regarding tomorrow's Tory manifesto.  Looks like they're relying on their poll lead being big enough to take a hit from some pensioner-bashing policies...cuts to winter fuel allowance, a 100K limit on social care funding from the value of your property.  No doubt they'll be pushing the "responsible and in the national interest" angle heavily, to mitigate some of the flak this will attract.

That's a bit of a mean spirited reading of what we know so far.

"In addition, winter fuel payments - currently paid to pensioners irrespective of income - will be means-tested in future, with the proceeds going directly to care for the elderly."

Sounds like a good idea to me. Don't see why all the rich old fucks should get the same winter allowance as the poor old fucks.

I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek there, but the pensioner vote is something that the Tories bank on.  With Labour taking a "tax-the-rich-and-the-corporations" approach, it will leave the Conservatives open to some form of attack, i.e. the "we've-paid-our-taxes-and-now-they're-taking-our-homes-off-us" type stuff.

Jalapeno

DarnWeight said:

Early stuff coming out now regarding tomorrow's Tory manifesto.  Looks like they're relying on their poll lead being big enough to take a hit from some pensioner-bashing policies...cuts to winter fuel allowance, a 100K limit on social care funding from the value of your property.  No doubt they'll be pushing the "responsible and in the national interest" angle heavily, to mitigate some of the flak this will attract.

Hang on, hardly pensioner bashing - the £100k limit is to be raised from the current £23k limit (that's when you stop having to funding social care yourself). That's a bloody GOOD thing !!!!!!!

Winter fuel being means tested is fair IMHO - I know people in their mid 60s getting it who go on mega cruises once or twice a year, that's not right IMHO.

DarnWeight

Jalapeno said:

DarnWeight said:

Early stuff coming out now regarding tomorrow's Tory manifesto.  Looks like they're relying on their poll lead being big enough to take a hit from some pensioner-bashing policies...cuts to winter fuel allowance, a 100K limit on social care funding from the value of your property.  No doubt they'll be pushing the "responsible and in the national interest" angle heavily, to mitigate some of the flak this will attract.

Hang on, hardly pensioner bashing - the £100k limit is to be raised from the current £23k limit (that's when you stop having to funding social care yourself). That's a bloody GOOD thing !!!!!!!

Winter fuel being means tested is fair IMHO - I know people in their mid 60s getting it who go on mega cruises once or twice a year, that's not right IMHO.

Again, see my previous comment...I'm just putting it in the context of where Labour are targeting the money they're raising for their spending plans.

If pensioners can retain more of the value of their property then that's clearly a good thing.  Given (a) the massive reduction in pensioner poverty over the last 15-20 years, and (b) the Tories commitment on them being the party of low taxation, then we can only guess where the money to fund this might be coming from.  There were rumblings of the pensions triple lock being abandoned/loosened post-Election, but I'm guessing there won't be any sign of this in the manifesto.  Remember also, that this policy will predominantly benefit the poorest pensioners most, so (call me cynical) can be seen as another play to win over traditional, older Labour voters.

Personally, I totally agree with means testing of winter fuel payments.  Wasn't it a Miliband pledge from 2015?  Seem to recall it was mooted anyway.

Fretwired

DarnWeight said:

Early stuff coming out now regarding tomorrow's Tory manifesto.  Looks like they're relying on their poll lead being big enough to take a hit from some pensioner-bashing policies...cuts to winter fuel allowance, a 100K limit on social care funding from the value of your property.  No doubt they'll be pushing the "responsible and in the national interest" angle heavily, to mitigate some of the flak this will attract.

Sorry mate but if you own your own house, have large amount of savings and a private pension why shouldn't you pay something? Where I live there are literally thousands of wealthy pensioners in detached or semi-detached houses who are well off. Why should hard working younger people subsidise their care in old age?

Fretwired

A YouGov poll for The Times put the Conservatives on 45 per cent, down 1 points compared with last week, Labour on 32, up 2 points, the Lib Dems on 8, down 3 and Ukip on 6, up 1. This would mean a Conservative majority of 66 if the swing to the Tories is uniformly spread across the country.

Labour bounce back, Tories stall and Lib Dems going backwards ..

DarnWeight

Fretwired said:

DarnWeight said:

Early stuff coming out now regarding tomorrow's Tory manifesto.  Looks like they're relying on their poll lead being big enough to take a hit from some pensioner-bashing policies...cuts to winter fuel allowance, a 100K limit on social care funding from the value of your property.  No doubt they'll be pushing the "responsible and in the national interest" angle heavily, to mitigate some of the flak this will attract.

Sorry mate but if you own your own house, have large amount of savings and a private pension why shouldn't you pay something? Where I live there are literally thousands of wealthy pensioners in detached or semi-detached houses who are well off. Why should hard working younger people subsidise their care in old age?

I guess I could point out that older people were all hard working younger people at one time in their lives, but that's painfully obvious.  For a lot of older people, their property effectively is their pension, so this will hit them.  Wealthy pensioners, not so much, I agree, and footing some of their own care bill is inevitable.

The last Conservative pledge on social care funding ended up getting "deferred until 2020" (the 72K cap), but its complete absence from this manifesto means it ain't gonna happen.  Andrew Dilnot, the guy who headed Cameron's review into social care funding, is livid.

The social care problem isn't going to go away, so to try and reframe it as some kind of inter-generational warfare isn't really going to address the issue. 

Fretwired

DarnWeight said:

Fretwired said:

DarnWeight said:

Early stuff coming out now regarding tomorrow's Tory manifesto.  Looks like they're relying on their poll lead being big enough to take a hit from some pensioner-bashing policies...cuts to winter fuel allowance, a 100K limit on social care funding from the value of your property.  No doubt they'll be pushing the "responsible and in the national interest" angle heavily, to mitigate some of the flak this will attract.

Sorry mate but if you own your own house, have large amount of savings and a private pension why shouldn't you pay something? Where I live there are literally thousands of wealthy pensioners in detached or semi-detached houses who are well off. Why should hard working younger people subsidise their care in old age?

I guess I could point out that older people were all hard working younger people at one time in their lives, but that's painfully obvious.  For a lot of older people, their property effectively is their pension, so this will hit them.  Wealthy pensioners, not so much, I agree, and footing some of their own care bill is inevitable.

The last Conservative pledge on social care funding ended up getting "deferred until 2020" (the 72K cap), but its complete absence from this manifesto means it ain't gonna happen.  Andrew Dilnot, the guy who headed Cameron's review into social care funding, is livid.

The social care problem isn't going to go away, so to try and reframe it as some kind of inter-generational warfare isn't really going to address the issue. 

Care has to be paid for somehow - the NHS is under pressure and there are a lot of older people. Older people (I'm coming up for 60) did work hard but they could afford to buy houses, had free education and saw the value of their properties rise without them having to do anything. If I fall ill and need a care home I'm happy to pay towards it through the sale of my house - you can't take it with you.

streethawk

Ripped from a comments section elsewhere:

"modern industrial strategy"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-sleepwalking-low-value-low-skilled-economy-unprepared-for-brexit-cipd-literacy-numeracy-ratee-a7689701.html

The Chartered Institute of Personnel Development criticised Government and businesses for “two decades of underinvestment” that have left the UK lagging well behind its competitors on at least four key measures including literacy and numeracy, learning and development, and digital skills.

The damning analysis comes in response to the Government’s Industrial Strategy Green Paper and highlights multiple failings in the UK’s skills system.
...
England and Northern Ireland together rank in the bottom four OECD countries for literacy and numeracy among 16-24 year olds, while the UK as a whole comes bottom of the class of 19 countries on young peoples’ computer problem-solving skills.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/more-than-half-of-schools-forced-to-ask-parents-for-financial-help-money-aid-spending-budget-cuts-a7675496.html

Half of schools in England have been forced to ask parents for some form of financial help as a result of crippling budget cuts to education, new research has revealed.

In a survey of around 1,200 teachers and school leaders, almost three quarters of respondents reported seeing cuts to spending on books and equipment in school, and almost half reported cuts to special educational needs provisions over the past year.

When asked whether money had been requested from parents as a result, half admitted their school had asked parents to contribute by buying particular items to help with their child’s costs.

As many as one in six schools were found to be directly asking parents for cash in order to help with a lack of school funding in the current school year

capo4th

Why shouldn't parents buy books for their children's education?