Axe_FX II Rigs, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Digital Modelling.

guitarfishbay

Interesting read. One question - I've only used my matrix gt1000fx loud once thus far, but I had a quick go on bridged mode and I thought it sorted out some of the thump for me. It wasn't a tone finding session so maybe it was just imagined, I only tried it briefly. But I thought it was sounding punchier in bridged. Tried to do some googling on it and couldn't find a straight answer as to if it makes much difference.

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

Interesting read. One question - I've only used my matrix gt1000fx loud once thus far, but I had a quick go on bridged mode and I thought it sorted out some of the thump for me. It wasn't a tone finding session so maybe it was just imagined, I only tried it briefly. But I thought it was sounding punchier in bridged. Tried to do some googling on it and couldn't find a straight answer as to if it makes much difference.

Not sure to be honest. We didn't try it in bridged mode on account of the two cabs, and I didn't actually think about it at the time. Would've been good to test, so maybe next time (if there is a next time!)

At some point I want to try it with bass guitar into a bass cab too.

guitarfishbay

Paul's post #10 seems interesting here if correct http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-cabs/78158-matrix-gt-1000-fx-gt-1600-fx-matrix-gt-1600-fx-too-powerful.html

Drew_TNBD

In my completely uneducated opinion, I think there is something going on with the speaker capacitance with the Valvestate that isn't happening with the Matrix. It felt like the difference between the speaker pushing out sound, and the speaker pushing out AIR.

It's difficult to quantify really. You just have to hear it. I know for me, as soon as we switched, I felt like I was playing through a tube amp and not a modeller. Can't really say much more than that really. I'm a picky bugger, so as you can imagine... pretty difficult to please. There's always something that nags at me tonewise, lol. Always something new I want to try, so take what I say with a pinch of salt I suppose.

I wont be selling my Diezel any time soon, because I love it. But some of the morphing stuff that Clarky does is really smooth and I can see where that approach would totally invigorate the live aspects of playing in Tacoma. If I can get the sound we got today, I'll be very happy to put my Diezel on the shelf for the time being and go all Axe FX.

Clarky

I've been thinking about this difference between the Marshall and the Matrix and I've got a theory..

the last time I used the Marshall power amp was when the Axe was at fw07 or fw08

I was in a studio with the Matrix guys A-B testing the Marshall and Matrix because Matrix were interested in me becoming a demonstrator / endorsee.. thing is, I'd never endorse kit that I have no faith in..

back then, the difference between the Marshall and Matrix was almost nil.

since then [specifically after fw10 I think], FAS has re-worked that Axe's power amp modelling in a big way.

I reckon this is where things may have changed in a way that the Marshall and Matrix react differently to the Axe now.

The Matrix is 'flatter', more accurate and more "hi-fi" I guess. 

The Marshall has a bit more of a "smear" - which could be the glue and the softening of the extreme hi's

and it also has a slight low mid "scoop" - which may explain the apparent extra strength in the lows.

so now, up at fw15, the Marshall in Valvestate mode is now contributing to the overall tone in very very pleasing way..

interestingly, although the extreme hi's softened, there was no loss of definition or note separation. it was all there..

with big spuds too..

the experimental presets I took with me to the studio were initially dialled-in in my studio through my monitors, so I knew that once they went through my backline tweaks would be needed [this is the ice-pick hi's that Drew observed].

a quick and dirty EQ tweak got them under control [the final tweaks I'd do would actually be done with these tones playing along to songs in a mix context - cos that really changes things].

anyways… the interesting thing is that the Marshall calmed down those extreme hi's a little more in a good way..

right now I'm reassembling my rack and wiring the Marshall back in with the Axe..

when I get the call for the next tour [and the set list], I'll be sorting out all me presets and then hitting the studio again to dial everything in, in detail..

fk… this sounded sooooooo good..

@Drew_FX had a great time matey.. 

it was as interesting / revealing as is was a fun day out with the volume up..

highly rewarding time spent in all respects…

and seeing @Handsom_Chris slack jawed when the 5153Green was being revealed was just awesome.. lol..

I know all the hi-gain amps… know 'em all well.. so for me the 5153Green really stole the show..

what a revelation..

Clarky

@Drew_FX the Matrix GT1600FX is voiced exactly the same as the GT1000FX. It's just more powerful.

Drew_TNBD

Yeah I had a blast too mate! We got some killer sounds coming out. If we'd planned ahead a bit more we could've done a wee little video or something, but ah well.

Clarky said:

@Drew_FX the Matrix GT1600FX is voiced exactly the same as the GT1000FX. It's just more powerful.

Yeah kinda figured that'd be the case.

The thing with the Marshall is, as you observed, it does kinda add a bit of 'smear' and what I would call 'glue' ... but I think it's exactly what you want to give it a bit of authenticity - sorry, I know I'm still looking at this stuff like a tube snob!!

Btw @guitarfishbay we level matched the Marshall and the Matrix, just in case what we were hearing was the Marshall just being louder. But even when turning it down it still had this really pleasing colour to it.

Clarky

also… remember we noticed a little difference in tone between my cabs…

they are both loaded the same [according to the specs - note though that I've not actually looked inside them]

Speaker Type: Celestion G12T-75

so why they are different I've no idea..

one is a year or two older.. don't know if that'll make a difference..

some day I'll open them up and look inside to see if there are any real differences

one thing that was certain, those small differences were helping things along..

cos… I use two amp models panned hard cos I like the blend..

you used a single amp, but the differences between the cabs was creating a very similar effect..

the huge, thick, spread wide tone that is pure joy..

but yeah… 

I'll certainly be doing this backline shakedown again [cos I have to from time to time as part of my tour prep]

and of course you're welcome to join us.. 

Chris has been coming to the studio the last couple of times I've done this..

guitarfishbay

Speakers always sound different in a cab. There's a guy on the sneap board who has posted up a couple of same cab model same speaker model same mic and relative mic position tests and the differences are really interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if identically spec'd cabs are a bit different sounding.

Clarky

I guess that makes sense.. things that are 'the same' are generally never exactly the same..

in this case, they're not the same in a good way..

because together they sound wonderful

Clarky

now that my rig is wired back into my studio, I checked out my presets..

no ice pick hi's

in fact, my tones are a little dark

in my studio I have the cab blocks fired up with emulation switched on

from this, I've concluded that the reason may be due to the hi-cut setting in the cab block..

I have that dialled down to 8k

with cab emulation off, that cut can't be taking effect..

so when I use my real cabs, cab emulation is off

I reckon it means that this hi-cut is no longer taking effect..

hence.. the ice pick hi's

Drew_TNBD

That makes sense. I never use those cuts in the cab block, tended to do it at the amp before it hits the cab. I'm grabbing a Valvestate on Tuesday!

guitarfishbay

Hmm that tip actually might be useful for me and my Pod HD setup.  You can activate a low pass via the 'mid focus' EQ, which is basically a low pass and high pass filter.

Was the valvestate as loud as the Matrix?  At 80 watts to 4 ohms that is a lot less wattage than the Matrix.  Also I only own 8 ohm cabs right now so I'm not sure how much use it would be to me other than as a reasonably priced backup power amp, assuming the same rules apply as with the Matrix and ohmage.

Drew_TNBD

Valvestate was louder. We ended up having to turn it down just to make sure we weren't being fooled by the extra volume.

The Matrix is a cool product, don't get me wrong. And for some people is probably the superior choice. But for me, I just liked what the valvestate did to the signal.

Clarky

Drew_fx said:

That makes sense. I never use those cuts in the cab block, tended to do it at the amp before it hits the cab. I'm grabbing a Valvestate on Tuesday!

jeez... maybe I should consider listening to my own advice.. the amp-block GEQ is for fixing stuff... so of course if I handle my 8k cut there, when the cab-em is off I retain my fix.. duhh ! ! !

holy sht... you found one soooo soon.. I was thinking that you could be looking for weeks.. months even..

Drew_TNBD

Clarky;290669" said:

holy sht... you found one soooo soon.. I was thinking that you could be looking for weeks.. months even..

I know right!! Mental! )

octatonic

Very interesting Drew.

Have you considered looking at a tube power amp, like the Fryette 2:50:2, or are you concerned about the weight?

Drew_TNBD

octatonic said:

Very interesting Drew.

Have you considered looking at a tube power amp, like the Fryette 2:50:2, or are you concerned about the weight?

Weight and price are the main things at the moment. But I did have it in the back of my head last night. If for some reason I cannot get the Valvestate to do the job, I will probably go the tube poweramp route before I go the Matrix route.

Clarky

just found out the weight

Marshall 8008: 6.2kg

Matrix GT1000FX 2U: 4.1kg

 

Drew_TNBD

Nothing in it really. 2kg aint shit!