Picard (contains spoilers)

darthed1981

digitalscream said:
What I don't get is that these companies know how to do it, and they know that it gets the fans to engage in their droves, yet they persist in doing the very opposite for the majority of just about every franchise these days. It's utter madness.

It depends what one thinks the future of the franchise is.

So far, the new Star Treks have been most successful when very nostalgic.  As a huge, huge Trek fan I'm absolutely loving this new series of Picard, but you couldn't do seven seasons like this, or even three.

Lower Decks is brilliant but very nostalgic, stuffed with references to other shows, Strange New Worlds is brilliant but is again nostalgia led, it's lead character from a legendary TOS episode, well three, its first season finale a remake of a TOS episode...

When they have tried to do something new with the franchise, essentially a modern serialised character drama set in the Trek universe, as they did with Discovery and Picard seasons 1 and 2, it has met with a mixed response.  I've never not enjoyed Discovery or Picard, though the first season of Picard really didn't end well.

Probably the best route forwards after SNW almost inevitably gets axed after its fourth or fifth season would be a show that somehow mixes a modern approach and nostalgia, it's very hard to get right, as everything gets compared to the high points thats defined their youth.

The trail-blazing spirit of the 60s show almost requires a strongly socially conscious approach, and so obviously the "its gone woke" accusations would be almost inevitable.

stickyfiddle

My money’s on Shaw getting a dose of nano probes. What’s good for neelix is definitely good enough for the Chicago dipshit 

stickyfiddle

Honestly I don’t think the companies themselves have the fainting fucking clue how to do this shit - they’re just flinging it at the wall and investing in whatever sticks. Sometimes they manage to hire a director that actually gets it and has the right studio relationships to actually get their thing done properly 

Star Wars has been heavy on garbage for 20+ years now, Trek is the same (SNW, Picard S3 and to an extent Lower Decks the only real high points since about 1999), DC hasn’t done anything that was obviously good by design since the TDK Trilogy, and even Marvel’s hit rate has been shaky of late. 

skullfunkerry

Absolutely loved this episode, and there's lots of stuff I agree with throughout this thread... except Lower Decks. I tried it twice, got about 3 episodes in and it was really annoying me, I had to abandon it. Is it worth sticking with again? I just found it really unfunny, and the characters were all getting on my nerves  

darthed1981

skullfunkerry said:

Absolutely loved this episode, and there's lots of stuff I agree with throughout this thread... except Lower Decks. I tried it twice, got about 3 episodes in and it was really annoying me, I had to abandon it. Is it worth sticking with again? I just found it really unfunny, and the characters were all getting on my nerves  

Stick with it - it takes a few episodes to find it's niche like all trek shows do, but by the first season finale it's very strong, IMHO.

darthed1981

digitalscream said:

There is one massive plot hole, though:

<spoiler stuff... not sure if it would code in a quote!>

Of course, I don't really care, because what we're getting is awesome.

Well really...

The Borg have always been surprisingly quiet, so rather than a plot hole it  could be argued it explains A LOT.  In Voyager when hundreds of cubes show up once or twice to assimilate some unfortunate planet, people always used to say "why not send hundreds of cubes to Earth" - presumably as powerful as Starfleet is, they wouldn't have time for a Dominion War style mobilisation, they would face the peacetime Starfleet they just assimilated, new, high-tech, brilliant genius level crews... a bit small, couple of thousand ships.  Now they are so fast, the Titan is average and can do Warp 9.99, they probably don't need too many.

In the now "alternate history" novels, the Borg DO launch a full scale invasion of the Federation, and this leads to massive casualties, and losing 40% of Starfleet.  It only gets resolved with a very complicated plot involving the origin of the Borg.

Apart from the time-travel attempt in First Contact however, the Borg have launched no attacks, including no revenge for Janeway taking out their transwarp network, so teaming up with the renegade Changelings to use their present left behind in Picard makes a lot of sense.

They have left a LOT to wrap up in episode ten... if the Borg are defeated fairly quickly, then how do they identify the Changelings, does Starfleet now come and rag on that Borg cube?  Does the cube head to Earth to start assimilating only to get hit by the Enterprise D?

Lot to look forward to.... long week ahead!!

Axe_meister

And what about Borg queen from season 2, or is that just in the alternative Q universe 

Jalapeno

Well there goes ...

... the Shaw spin off

darthed1981

Jalapeno said:

Well there goes ...

... the Shaw spin off

From what I'm reading online

Possibly not, which would make me a happy panda.

darthed1981

Axe_meister said:

And what about Borg queen from season 2, or is that just in the alternative Q universe 

That's just one small sub-collective run by the Jurati Queen, it's confirmed she doesn't appear in this series...

stickyfiddle

Jalapeno said:

Well there goes ...

... the Shaw spin off

NANOPROBES!!! Please?

darthed1981

stickyfiddle said:

Jalapeno said:

Well there goes ...

... the Shaw spin off

NANOPROBES!!! Please?

Would make a lot of sense, if the Borg go around reviving all the older officers they just shot, Starfleet will get away relatively bloodlessly if and when everyone goes back to normal...

digitalscream

Well, fuck yes. OK, so there's a bit more in the way of hand-wavery, but it really doesn't matter.

Also, stick around for the mid-credits. Let's just say...I'm optimistic for the future.

stickyfiddle

Well they managed 10 episodes and stuck the landing. High hopes for putting Matalas in charge of everything and getting a decade of great TV

gubble

Surprised we didn't see a single glimpse of Janeway.

I enjoyed it - not as much as Ep9. The humour with worf was slightly overdone is my only real criticism

stickyfiddle

gubble said:

Surprised we didn't see a single glimpse of Janeway.

I enjoyed it - not as much as Ep9. The humour with worf was slightly overdone is my only real criticism

Matalas says his first draft had Janeway AND Harry Kim but the studio wouldn’t let him

Axe_meister

Why did data have that hologram of Tasha Yar? 

digitalscream

Axe_meister said:

Why did data have that hologram of Tasha Yar? 

He always kept it with him after she died - it popped up every now and again in the background throughout TNG (and maybe even one or two of the films).

Also, y'know, they bumped uglies once.

fretmeister

Nice.

Now that we have reached the end... In an earlier episode the baddie was given away because the sodding subtitles names the ethereal voice that was talking to Jack.

Tossers.

darthed1981

Brilliant, fantastic, wonderful, amazing.

Tear in the eye throughout...