Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - SPOILER discussion

ICBM

stickyfiddle said:

To be fair, this is from the same regime that brought us the Death Star that can be blown up with a single torpedo down a poorly-designed vent

We found out in Rogue One that it was intentionally designed like that by Galen Urso in order to have a weakness that could be used to destroy it - and even then, it was a very small and well-defended target to hit.

The really remarkable thing is that when you read about the history of some real naval battles in the WWI-WWII era, quite a few capital ships were crippled or sunk by single lucky hits, so having Star Destroyers with such major design flaws is perhaps not that far-fetched...

Someone really needs to improve the training of Imperial stormtroopers though - none of them could hit a barn from the inside.

LastMantra

Was the "super hero landing" meant to be ironic?

bbill335

LastMantra said:

Was the "super hero landing" meant to be ironic?

again, anime as heck. (i don't remember anyone doing a superhero landing but i can imagine old Kylo doing it)

LastMantra

It was rey during the fight on top of the space ship.


Nobody mentioned the wee oih oih! fella? 

vasselmeyer

ICBM said:

Someone really needs to improve the training of Imperial stormtroopers though - none of them could hit a barn from the inside.

Have you tried wearing a Stormtrooper helmet? You can't see a bloody thing!

bbill335

LastMantra said:

It was rey during the fight on top of the space ship.


Nobody mentioned the wee oih oih! fella? 

Rey's MOST anime moment, was chopping the wing off of Kylo's TIE. 

sev112

I always wonder, if SW, ESB and RoTJ actually appeared 20 years later, would  the fanboys and girls still think they were the best films, against which the others were judged  , or would they be considered to be full of plot holes and crap story telling in the same way that the “later” ones are considered?

ICBM

sev112 said:

I always wonder, if SW, ESB and RoTJ actually appeared 20 years later, would  the fanboys and girls still think they were the best films, against which the others were judged  , or would they be considered to be full of plot holes and crap story telling in the same way that the “later” ones are considered?

Just watch them and you will have the answer.

... apart from the Ewoks in ROTJ.

Star Wars and Empire are masterpieces by comparison with any of the later films except Rogue One.

LastMantra

I probably wouldn't bother they were great when I was a kid. 
Saying that I was born in 76 and the first movie still seemed fresh when I first watched it. Must have seemed quite ahead of it's time when it came out?

vasselmeyer

LastMantra said:

I probably wouldn't bother they were great when I was a kid. 
Saying that I was born in 76 and the first movie still seemed fresh when I first watched it. Must have seemed quite ahead of it's time when it came out?

I watched Star Wars when it first came out in 1978 and it was absolutely mind-blowing for a 10 year old. The opening with the giant destroyer coming in over the top of the screen was it was the greatest thing I'd ever seen. 

Those people and the love of the movies that they have passed on to their kids is why Star Wars is still relevant.

sev112

vasselmeyer said:

LastMantra said:

I probably wouldn't bother they were great when I was a kid. 
Saying that I was born in 76 and the first movie still seemed fresh when I first watched it. Must have seemed quite ahead of it's time when it came out?

I watched Star Wars when it first came out in 1978 and it was absolutely mind-blowing for a 10 year old. The opening with the giant destroyer coming in over the top of the screen was it was the greatest thing I'd ever seen. 

Those people and the love of the movies that they have passed on to their kids is why Star Wars is still relevant.

This is my point.  We all watched the first one when we were 10, and it was awesome, we’d never seen anything like it.  We weren’t looking for plot holes or rubbish CGI back then, so we presume those early films were “perfect.

ICBM

sev112 said:

This is my point.  We all watched the first one when we were 10, and it was awesome, we’d never seen anything like it.  We weren’t looking for plot holes or rubbish CGI back then, so we presume those early films were “perfect.

There was no CGI then, that was all added by Lucas when he ‘remastered’ them or whatever he called buggering around with them...

But even with that, just watch them now and you’ll see the difference compared to the new ones - they do hold up very well even by modern standards, even though they aren’t perfect.

I actually think that in time this new trilogy will be seen as no better than the prequel trilogy - it just adds a lot of unnecessary baggage that doesn’t improve the original story.

To be even more controversial, of the three of them I think TLJ was possibly the least bad - partly because of all the original actors who were brought back, Mark Hamill is the only one who didn’t look like a Hollywood guest star in a TV show.

Mark_R

Forget the plot holes and the distinct lack of physics, there are far too many to mention.

What I really want to know is, what is the point of the storm trooper armour?

I get in the 1970's. the idea of the uniform was to create an anonymous endless army.  But in the 40 years since, has there been no progress?  Our own armed forces have helmets now that augment what they are seeing with GPS and drone/satellite feeds.  Helicopter and fighter pilots get a vr 360 view from their helmets so they can always see the target.  So why have Storm Troopers not got the simplest of targeting information?

Dont get me started on the body armour as it seems to has no effect in combat.  Even a blow to the helmet renders a Trooper unconscious. Perhaps this is why the rebels dont have their own armoured suits.

One final thing, if Storm Troopers are all slaves/conscripts, why the hell are there not attempts to save/turn them?

guitargeek62

Mark_R said:

One final thing, if Storm Troopers are all slaves/conscripts, why the hell are there not attempts to save/turn them?

In the OT they weren’t, at that point they were mostly volunteers. By the time of TFA, the First Order had started stealing children at a young age and brainwashing/training them. Think of it like stockholm syndrome I guess. Kids are maleable, and the Jedi Order arguably did a similar thing for centuries too. Also, Shana’s group in ROS is another (i.e. Finn) example of First Order troopers that rebelled against their training anyway.

Hurling_Fruitmig

ICBM said:

littlegreenman said:

They hadn't left orbit yet.

They weren't even in orbit, they were supposedly hovering just above the surface and within the atmosphere.

They're very poorly-designed for something supposed to be a powerful interplanetary battleship though - not only can't they navigate by themselves, and the defensive guns don't have an interlock to stop them firing into their own command bridge, if you drop a grenade into a random hatch somewhere it causes a chain reaction that runs directly up to the communications tower and blows that up too.

They did; Finn and his buddys spent some time disabling it.

ICBM

Hurling_Fruitmig said:

They did; Finn and his buddys spent some time disabling it.

I may have missed how effective that was because I was rolling my eyes so much at all the other crap by that point...

Philly_Q

Although I loved the first film back in 1977 (I say 1977, just realised it must've been 1978 when I actually saw it), I've never really engaged with the Star Wars series.  I've seen (nearly) all of them, but in the wrong order and most of them I've only seen once.

So I spend at least the first hour of every new Star Wars film being completely baffled by conversations like "...I last saw you with General X on planet Y after the rout at the battle of Z...", trying to understand how (and why) they get from A to B to C so bloody quickly and assuming everyone else in the audience knows exactly what's going on.  Then if I'm lucky I might engage with the last half of the film.

I thought this one was...OK.  Every scene featuring any member of the original cast (alive or dead) is eye-rollingly dreadful.  Especially Lando Calrissian.  And the Ewoks.  Overall I think they were bloody lucky to get Adam Driver for this trilogy, even though his character never really does very much.  I think Daisy Ridley is quite good in this one too.   I was a bit disappointed by the relative lack of J.J. Abrams lens flare.

english_bob

Anybody read the scrapped Trevorrow script that's doing the rounds?

https://mega.nz/#!MegFDK7Y!dK6dhZsRXTmIgZ39l9719Macz1TQCZQtlhSCz0EdmOI

Couldn't have been made after Carrie Fisher's death, and you can kind of see how elements of it wound up in the finished TROS story, but for my money it would have been a better film, and a better follow-on to The Last Jedi (which I liked a lot).

ICBM

Wow. That’s an order of magnitude better than the pish they did make.

I’m not sure it couldn’t have been done, either - they may have needed to reduce Carrie Fisher’s parts a bit, but they managed to bring Peter Cushing back from the dead reasonably well for Rogue One. (Although Carrie Fisher less so, but probably because she needed to look young.)

ICBM

I’ve read it through again and I now think it’s the correct story, and what they made as a film is some weird aberration. The plot of this is far better, doesn’t involve illogically resurrecting Palpatine, gives more depth to Rey and Kylo, more development to Finn, Poe and Rose, and a more satisfying closure to the saga by bringing both sides of the Force together. It’s well-written and has the right mix of drama, humour and emotion - even much better roles for Chewbacca and the droids.

I don’t have much doubt that it’s genuine - it’s too good not to be written by a top-level screenwriter, and the level of detail is superb... if you read it through and imagine it in your mind you can almost see the finished film. Do it twice and it starts to take over from what you actually saw. It’s frustrating that they got it so wrong in the released version - admittedly it would have been a big job to do this one without Carrie Fisher, but I think I’d prefer to have seen it even with a different actor.