Fender and their strange void in their product

monquixote

stickyfiddle said:

I don't believe people are flocking to the Silver Sky because of a 7.25" radius, they're buying it because 1) John Mayer and 2) PRS fanboys and 3) by all accounts it's just a damn good guitar.

Most early reports I read suggested people bought one despite the radius as they normally preferred flatter.

Indeed

The number of silver sky sold compared to Vintera will be miniscule and have no bearing on Fenders thinking.

They would have sold just as many with a 12" radius and jumbo frets. Or 9.5" and 6105 like the Mayer Strat.

thegummy

Whitecat said:

RaymondLin said:

Are all the little missing parts in each level a way to up sell because they know this?

That's generally their thinking, yes.

I'm fairly convinced this is true. Fender might openly admit it, I have no idea, but it seems certain to me that this is deliberate.

So the number of people buying an American Fender isn't just the number of people who want to buy that level of guitar, it also includes everyone who would have been happy with most of a cheaper guitar but wanted one of the specs exclusive to the more expensive model.

thegummy

A possible reason for the omission of the 7.25 fingerboards could be something touched on in the OP with the "niche" comment.

If a dozen people on a very small community like a guitar forum express a preference it can seem like a significant minority. But maybe out of all the people who buy fender guitars in the world, it's only a tiny fraction who would care about that and not the 20% that would be worth doing.

That's just a possibility though, I don't know what the actual stats are.

monquixote

thegummy said:

A possible reason for the omission of the 7.25 fingerboards could be something touched on in the OP with the "niche" comment.

If a dozen people on a very small community like a guitar forum express a preference it can seem like a significant minority. But maybe out of all the people who buy fender guitars in the world, it's only a tiny fraction who would care about that and not the 20% that would be worth doing.

That's just a possibility though, I don't know what the actual stats are.

I think you have to consider that the vast majority of guitar players have no idea what fingerboard radius is.

I'd heard the term in guitar magazines, but I'd probably been playing guitar for 10 years before I played a guitar with anything other than a 9.5" radius and I am by nature a geek. The same goes for fret wire.

Most people would just play a 50's reissue and say it felt "weird", but not be able to explain why. It's in Fenders interest to make things feel like people expect on standard production models.

Caffeine_Vampire

The difference between 7'25 and 9'5 really isn't all that great. I've got guitars with both and switching between them takes less than second to adjust. The change to 9'5 was nearly 40 years ago anyway, that's vintage isn't it?

mudslide73

Caffeine_Vampire said:

The difference between 7'25 and 9'5 really isn't all that great. I've got guitars with both and switching between them takes less than second to adjust. The change to 9'5 was nearly 40 years ago anyway, that's vintage isn't it?

I switch between 7.25" and 12" Fenders all the time - I wouldn't let the radius put me off a guitar I loved. 

crunchman

I can play a 9.5" radius, but 7.25" does feel more natural to me on a Fender style guitar.

Caffeine_Vampire

Pick up any vintage 7'25 Fender and check the radiius. Most have been flattened down to 10'.

Philly_Q

I wonder how many people really find the 7.25" radius more playable than 9.5"?  I'm sure some do, but I suspect there's a greater number who want it just because it's vintage-correct.

If Fender had never made 7.25" guitars and it was 9.5" from day one, I doubt there'd be anyone going "these boards are too flat, I want the option of a more rounded one".

monquixote

Caffeine_Vampire said:

The difference between 7'25 and 9'5 really isn't all that great. I've got guitars with both and switching between them takes less than second to adjust. The change to 9'5 was nearly 40 years ago anyway, that's vintage isn't it?

I think it's actually the vintage frets.

I had a G&L which I discovered had a 7.25" radius, but I never noticed because it had massive 6100 frets so it was really easy to bend.

The Gretsch I had was (I think) a 12" radius, but it felt weird and vintage because it had teeny narrow frets.

Jonathanthomas83

There's no science to it, I had two strats - a Custom Shop with a 9.5" radius and slightly larger frets, beautiful sounding thing and a AV '57 with 7.25" and vintage frets. Whilst owning both, I picked up the '57 almost every time and the CS has sat in its case for the best part of a year. The '57 has become my favourite. I enjoy the way it plays and enjoy the way it sounds. It just stands to reason that the radius and vintage feel of it is my preference. I sold the CS and now looking for a similar specced Tele and a '62 strat with Rosewood board and vintage specs. So, to my mind, there's got to be some sort of leaning on my part. I'm not saying everyone should love the vintage spec, just saying that I do.

guitars4you

Caffeine_Vampire said:

The difference between 7'25 and 9'5 really isn't all that great. I've got guitars with both and switching between them takes less than second to adjust. The change to 9'5 was nearly 40 years ago anyway, that's vintage isn't it?

Totally agree - IMO by far the biggest difference is when you play either 7.25 or 9.5 radius with vintage frets or chunkier frets, (be it 6150, 6106 or 6100) - It will depend a touch on how low you want the action, without choking out as and when you bend

Philly_Q

I do agree about the frets, although I'd choose 9.5" or 10" radius over 7.25" it's the teeny frets I really dislike on vintage-spec Fenders.  Some Gibsons have overly-small (or low) frets too.

crunchman

Philly_Q said:

I do agree about the frets, although I'd choose 9.5" or 10" radius over 7.25" it's the teeny frets I really dislike on vintage-spec Fenders.  Some Gibsons have overly-small (or low) frets too.

I'm the other way though.  I got a Custom Shop with 9.5" radius and huge frets, and I didn't like the big frets at all.  That was my main reason for selling it - although the horrendous relic job was grating on me as well.

To be fair, I suspect that the reason I was pulling cowboy chords sharp was partly the nut being cut a bit high as well as the big frets, although I didn't realise that at the time.

CasperCaster

Firstly, let me say that if I had the money I would be very happy with an American Original. I think one of the reasons for change was simply that many of the specs of the AVRI had been unchanged for ages (notably radius/frets) and they were selling, but not in the numbers Fender hoped for. The Originals do address a common criticism of tha AVRI models, but you are right that it does leave a gap in the range. In recent years I have found that the 7.25 radius is actually fine, but the tiny vintage frets are the problem for me. It was'nt a PRS Silver Sky which led me to that conclusion, rather the medium jumbo frets on a 7.25 radius Fender Roadworn. Prior to the Roadworn models I can't think of a Fender style instrument with modern frets on a vintage radius, so hardly surprising that many who don't like the vintage radius (myself included) really have a problem with the vintage frets, rather than the fingerboard radius. 

Caffeine_Vampire

My AVRI '72 Deluxe has a 7'25 radius. I switched out the small frets for stainless 6105's IIRC and it's the nicest playing Tele I've owned and that includes all the custom shop stuff.

guitars4you

crunchman said:

Philly_Q said:

I do agree about the frets, although I'd choose 9.5" or 10" radius over 7.25" it's the teeny frets I really dislike on vintage-spec Fenders.  Some Gibsons have overly-small (or low) frets too.

I'm the other way though.  I got a Custom Shop with 9.5" radius and huge frets, and I didn't like the big frets at all.  That was my main reason for selling it - although the horrendous relic job was grating on me as well.

To be fair, I suspect that the reason I was pulling cowboy chords sharp was partly the nut being cut a bit high as well as the big frets, although I didn't realise that at the time.

I think the Clapton model is the only signature model that sticks to smaller frets, so it obviously suits him and he is a fairly 'big bender' as well 

stonevibe

I think you just need a slightly higher action to get decent bends on a 7.25", it also feels better with a high action to me.

The flatter the board/larger the frets, the lower the action you can get away with. However, to me it doesn't feel as good for bends if the action is too low.

Definitely personal taste with these statements and you will all like. something different I am sure.

Jez6345789

I think the Silver Sky is just an anomaly in this question. For years Fender has beaten the drum and going back to the American Standard Plus etc they have trumpeted and spent a massive amount of marketing dollars in that time telling us that Strats etc now come with our most playable necks with 9.5 Radius a great improvement over the 7.25 so you can now play chords and lead without choking out blah blah. 

So Fender are not really bothering simply as all their collective sales figure tell them people prefer flatter radius and as much as PRS have picked their pockets with a better Strat that has a vintage vibe and modern build quality the same as they did with Gibson and the 594. As said they know the name Mayer and perhaps PRS fit and finish is what is selling the guitar and the radius is at most a talking point and one that is still dividing people over the Silver Sky you hear so many people say if it was not for the neck Radius I would own one in an instant, mostly those people have never played one as frankly when you play a Silver Sky it just comes over aa a very nice Strat.

So thats how I see it if 7.25 Radius was a big seller Fender would make it and doing the Vintera in both is probably putting a toe in the water and seeing if there is actually a trend happening. 

Pabcrane

I wrote to Fender Europe about whether they or the retailer would swap the necks on the guitars as there was one in s colour I liked but I wanted 7.25 radius.

The bloke who answered me said 'no', that he would discourage any retailer from doing it, and that level of customisation was not available on guitars below a certain price. (Which I interpreted as being non-custom shop instruments)