Fender and their strange void in their product

Whitecat

stickyfiddle said:

I don't know if it's a UK thing, but the mod shop I'm seeing (International) has 6 different 7.25" strat necks, including 2x with lacquer finishes (50's and 60's Classic)

Is that just for buying replacement necks though?

The "mod shop" we are talking about allows you to spec out a whole guitar built-to-order within a fairly narrow options set... but it's only available in the USA at the moment.

RaymondLin

monquixote said:

RaymondLin said:

monquixote said:

RaymondLin said:

I mean my point is…strange decision for a mod shop, the idea to let you put together something you want that isn’t made on the regular line, only to be denied, not because they don’t make the part. It would be like the Custom Shop not let you choose a Maple Neck, but you can buy it separately and bolt it on yourself.

Yes I know it is up selling.

But it's not just one option is it.

They do 9 different Strat necks. If you want to offer them in vintage radius that's 18 necks. Maple and rosewood then suddenly it's 36 necks.

That can work on Custom Shop because they are made to order, but with a parts bin approach it becomes a combinatorial explosion.

You could just offer one vintage radius, but then again you've defeated the point.

The Mod Shop is not made to order?

I am not asking for a neck they don't make, they already make it, it's sold on its own. 

With the Custom shop they actually make the neck,

With mod shop they take it out of a parts bin so they are constrained on the number of options.

Exactly, and the parts bin has the neck already.

crunchman

monquixote said:

RaymondLin said:

monquixote said:

RaymondLin said:

It is very odd that the Mod shop won't let you spec a 7.25" radius yet you can buy it on its own.

It suggests that there is very little demand.

But it’s the Mod Shop, you choose your parts, they only has to pick a different neck from the parts bin.  It’s almost like a custom shop.  They already make it, it’s sold on its own.  There is nothing physically stopping them picking up a different neck, it’s like the difference between maple or roasted maple, same 4 screws.  It’s more a business decision rather than any practical reasons.

Yes it's a business decision.

If people were writing in and complaining "I'd buy a mod shop, but you don't have the radius I want" they could very easily fix it, but they don't which suggests people aren't.

The mod shop limits a lot of options.  They don't seem to offer the 6 screw Strat bridge, if you select the American Original neck you can't have locking tuners, they don't have classic custom colours like Burgundy Mist and Ocean Turquoise.

Whitecat

chris78 said:

sorry, you're quite right and I remember reading that.
PRS nitro is a different composition than old nitro isn't it? Presumably it has less toxic chemicals (big assumption?)

Pretty much all nitro these days from anyone is different from the nitro of yore...

Whitecat

crunchman said:

monquixote said:

RaymondLin said:

monquixote said:

RaymondLin said:

It is very odd that the Mod shop won't let you spec a 7.25" radius yet you can buy it on its own.

It suggests that there is very little demand.

But it’s the Mod Shop, you choose your parts, they only has to pick a different neck from the parts bin.  It’s almost like a custom shop.  They already make it, it’s sold on its own.  There is nothing physically stopping them picking up a different neck, it’s like the difference between maple or roasted maple, same 4 screws.  It’s more a business decision rather than any practical reasons.

Yes it's a business decision.

If people were writing in and complaining "I'd buy a mod shop, but you don't have the radius I want" they could very easily fix it, but they don't which suggests people aren't.

The mod shop limits a lot of options.  They don't seem to offer the 6 screw Strat bridge, if you select the American Original neck you can't have locking tuners, they don't have classic custom colours like Burgundy Mist and Ocean Turquoise.

They have Ocean Turquoise for sure - sixth row, third from the left.

But you're right about BMM - seems to be one of those colours that they have a "riff" on rather than the actual colour - in this case it's "Bordeaux Metallic" which is a little darker. Another one is Seafoam Green - no actual SFG but they have "mystic" Seafoam Green which I think has a hint of metallic about it...

monquixote

RaymondLin said:

monquixote said:

RaymondLin said:

monquixote said:

RaymondLin said:

I mean my point is…strange decision for a mod shop, the idea to let you put together something you want that isn’t made on the regular line, only to be denied, not because they don’t make the part. It would be like the Custom Shop not let you choose a Maple Neck, but you can buy it separately and bolt it on yourself.

Yes I know it is up selling.

But it's not just one option is it.

They do 9 different Strat necks. If you want to offer them in vintage radius that's 18 necks. Maple and rosewood then suddenly it's 36 necks.

That can work on Custom Shop because they are made to order, but with a parts bin approach it becomes a combinatorial explosion.

You could just offer one vintage radius, but then again you've defeated the point.

The Mod Shop is not made to order?

I am not asking for a neck they don't make, they already make it, it's sold on its own. 

With the Custom shop they actually make the neck,

With mod shop they take it out of a parts bin so they are constrained on the number of options.

Exactly, and the parts bin has the neck already.

From what I can see it doesn't

The Mod Shop parts bin is a selection of components from the standard US models as far as I can see.

You are essentially making a guitar out of the American Performer, Original and Professional bits they have at the factory.

The replacement vintage radius neck is a Mexican part so they don't have it.

RaymondLin

monquixote said:

RaymondLin said:

monquixote said:

RaymondLin said:

From what I can see it doesn't

The Mod Shop parts bin is a selection of components from the standard US models as far as I can see.

You are essentially making a guitar out of the American Performer, Original and Professional bits they have at the factory.

The replacement vintage radius neck is a Mexican part so they don't have it.

Yeah that's true.

stickyfiddle

Whitecat said:

stickyfiddle said:

I don't know if it's a UK thing, but the mod shop I'm seeing (International) has 6 different 7.25" strat necks, including 2x with lacquer finishes (50's and 60's Classic)

Is that just for buying replacement necks though?

The "mod shop" we are talking about allows you to spec out a whole guitar built-to-order within a fairly narrow options set... but it's only available in the USA at the moment.

Ah, maybe. I was looking at the "Necks for sale" page. 

ICBM

Given the range of factory options you can choose on most modern cars, which are vastly more complex than a few bits of wood, metal and wires screwed together, it's really ridiculous that Fender can't wont do the same.

"For everything else, there's the Custom Shop."

Schnozz

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Schnozz said:

7.25 is fine if you have medium+ frets - No one wants 7.25 and skinny frets,  unless you want vintage accurate, or you're into S&M.

Disagree with this.

He says, as he lashes his bellend with a riding crop

Tex Mexico

I think 80/20 is unrealistic in terms of the number of guitar players who select or not  based on "vintage-correct" ideas like fretboard radius, thinskin nitro and so on.

I think it's more like 95/5. Put it this way: "vintage-correct" might be a widely-used selling point, marketing guff, whatever you want to call it, but I reckon it's more like 5% of players who even know what that means. Maybe another 30% think it sounds cool. The remaining 65% probably don't really give a toss either way.

We can dupe ourselves, on forums like this, that the wide world of guitar players is obsessed with boutique tone this and handwired that and period-accurate the other, but you go and check out some rig rundowns on YouTube, and see just how many of the touring pros are using a bunch of off-the-shelf midrange stuff that they have to ask their techs about because they don't even know. Or care. Gear geeks are a minority, and the kind of ubergeek who can tell nitro from poly just by the smell, or what the radius is just from a feel, is a rare bird. I reckon 99%, at a conservative estimate, of people who buy guitars wouldn't know a tonewood from a 2x4.

Manufacturers don't just go ahead and manufacture whatever it says on paper they can sell. There are a hundred other considerations, the main one being that diversification eats into profit margins. For every variation that doesn't come with an upcharge, you lose money. The question isn't "can we sell a 9.5" and a 7.25"?", it's "how many of the 7.25" guys are we going to lose if we only offer a 9.5"?". And that's only the first question. Fender could offer every guitar they make in two dozen finishes - why don't they? Because they know if they do any three of burst, red, blonde, black, they'll cover almost all of their market.

The final piece of that rationale is this: if 5 guys out of 100 don't buy the American Vintage because it doesn't come in Antigua Burst, or with a 7.25" veneer board, or with a tone bypass on the bridge pickup, or whatever specific piece of vintage refinery happens to tickle their ballsack, there's a good chance 1 in that 5 will save up a bit more and spec up a Custom Shop.

RaymondLin

FYI, the 80/20 I pulled that number out of my ass, I’ve done no market research.  It was merely to suggest “the minority”.

Tex Mexico

RaymondLin said:

FYI, the 80/20 I pulled that number out of my ass, I’ve done no market research.  It was merely to suggest “the minority”.

I wasn't trying to have a go. I kind of agree with you and I've had similar thoughts myself. I used to be and still am a bit a Fender fan and I can't count the number of times I've seen a guitar and thought "if only they did it like this...".

That Cabronita came out and I would have bought one if it had had a vintage neck rather than the MIM Std variation. I thought "that's so stupid, why would they cost themselves that obvious market for people who want something with this kind of vintage cool" - then bafflingly they did the Bigsby version on the Squier. Had they done a MIM Bigsby Cabronita with a vintage neck and tuners I would have dropped the full RRP on it (I expect it would have been about £800 at the time) right away.

Instead the closest you could get to it was the CS ones. I'm still pretty sure the reason the Cabronita didn't become a core Fender model is they didn't give it the full vintage beans in MIM. I mean, imagine a RoadWorn model, Olympic White nitro, just a touch of a relic...

But here's the thing: I'm probably wrong about all of that.

RaymondLin

Tex Mexico said:

RaymondLin said:

FYI, the 80/20 I pulled that number out of my ass, I’ve done no market research.  It was merely to suggest “the minority”.

Instead the closest you could get to it was the CS ones. I'm still pretty sure the reason the Cabronita didn't become a core Fender model is they didn't give it the full vintage beans in MIM. I mean, imagine a RoadWorn model, Olympic White nitro, just a touch of a relic...

But here's the thing: I'm probably wrong about all of that.

Funny point about MIM Road Worn, Olympic White, Nitro, a tough or Relic, I have one, 7.25” neck too, RW board, not Pau Ferro, 6point Trem, but a Strat not a Cabronita.

Tex Mexico

RaymondLin said:

Tex Mexico said:

RaymondLin said:

FYI, the 80/20 I pulled that number out of my ass, I’ve done no market research.  It was merely to suggest “the minority”.

Instead the closest you could get to it was the CS ones. I'm still pretty sure the reason the Cabronita didn't become a core Fender model is they didn't give it the full vintage beans in MIM. I mean, imagine a RoadWorn model, Olympic White nitro, just a touch of a relic...

But here's the thing: I'm probably wrong about all of that.

Funny point about MIM Road Worn, Olympic White, Nitro, a tough or Relic, I have one, 7.25” neck too, RW board, not Pau Ferro, 6point Trem, but a Strat not a Cabronita.

I coveted the 60s RW strat for a while. I've owned a first-run tele and the short-lived Wayne Kramer strat (which was garbage). No disrespect to your strat but I would only have had an early one, the newer ones have a different relic job especially on the pickguard and I'm not into it. I also really wanted the mega-rare 72 deluxe roadworn tele in oly white. That was awesome.

I think it's one of the downsides of being a guitar gear nerd, is that you form your preferences into a kind of wishlist guitar, or amp, or whatever, and go looking for it, and it's so frustrating when you can't find it.

Weird thing is though is that on the few occasions I have found what I was looking for, I own it for a bit and then move it on. It's always the weird unexpected ones that stick around.

RaymondLin

Tex Mexico said:

RaymondLin said:

Tex Mexico said:

RaymondLin said:

FYI, the 80/20 I pulled that number out of my ass, I’ve done no market research.  It was merely to suggest “the minority”.

Instead the closest you could get to it was the CS ones. I'm still pretty sure the reason the Cabronita didn't become a core Fender model is they didn't give it the full vintage beans in MIM. I mean, imagine a RoadWorn model, Olympic White nitro, just a touch of a relic...

But here's the thing: I'm probably wrong about all of that.

Funny point about MIM Road Worn, Olympic White, Nitro, a tough or Relic, I have one, 7.25” neck too, RW board, not Pau Ferro, 6point Trem, but a Strat not a Cabronita.

I coveted the 60s RW strat for a while. I've owned a first-run tele and the short-lived Wayne Kramer strat (which was garbage). No disrespect to your strat but I would only have had an early one, the newer ones have a different relic job especially on the pickguard and I'm not into it. I also really wanted the mega-rare 72 deluxe roadworn tele in oly white. That was awesome.

I think it's one of the downsides of being a guitar gear nerd, is that you form your preferences into a kind of wishlist guitar, or amp, or whatever, and go looking for it, and it's so frustrating when you can't find it.

Weird thing is though is that on the few occasions I have found what I was looking for, I own it for a bit and then move it on. It's always the weird unexpected ones that stick around.

Not sure when was the first year but the serial number dates mine to 2008.

Tex Mexico

RaymondLin said:

Tex Mexico said:

RaymondLin said:

Tex Mexico said:

RaymondLin said:

FYI, the 80/20 I pulled that number out of my ass, I’ve done no market research.  It was merely to suggest “the minority”.

Instead the closest you could get to it was the CS ones. I'm still pretty sure the reason the Cabronita didn't become a core Fender model is they didn't give it the full vintage beans in MIM. I mean, imagine a RoadWorn model, Olympic White nitro, just a touch of a relic...

But here's the thing: I'm probably wrong about all of that.

Funny point about MIM Road Worn, Olympic White, Nitro, a tough or Relic, I have one, 7.25” neck too, RW board, not Pau Ferro, 6point Trem, but a Strat not a Cabronita.

I coveted the 60s RW strat for a while. I've owned a first-run tele and the short-lived Wayne Kramer strat (which was garbage). No disrespect to your strat but I would only have had an early one, the newer ones have a different relic job especially on the pickguard and I'm not into it. I also really wanted the mega-rare 72 deluxe roadworn tele in oly white. That was awesome.

I think it's one of the downsides of being a guitar gear nerd, is that you form your preferences into a kind of wishlist guitar, or amp, or whatever, and go looking for it, and it's so frustrating when you can't find it.

Weird thing is though is that on the few occasions I have found what I was looking for, I own it for a bit and then move it on. It's always the weird unexpected ones that stick around.

Not sure when was the first year but the serial number dates mine to 2008.

Sorry my bad, I misread and thought yours was Pau Ferro, which would make it more recent. I think 2008 was first year so yours is one of the early (and therefore really nice) ones.

Whitecat

No question @RaymondLin’s got a belter of an example. 

RaymondLin

Whitecat said:

No question @RaymondLin’s got a belter of an example. 

Total fluke!

Jonathanthomas83

RaymondLin said:

Tex Mexico said:

RaymondLin said:

Tex Mexico said:

RaymondLin said:

FYI, the 80/20 I pulled that number out of my ass, I’ve done no market research.  It was merely to suggest “the minority”.

Instead the closest you could get to it was the CS ones. I'm still pretty sure the reason the Cabronita didn't become a core Fender model is they didn't give it the full vintage beans in MIM. I mean, imagine a RoadWorn model, Olympic White nitro, just a touch of a relic...

But here's the thing: I'm probably wrong about all of that.

Funny point about MIM Road Worn, Olympic White, Nitro, a tough or Relic, I have one, 7.25” neck too, RW board, not Pau Ferro, 6point Trem, but a Strat not a Cabronita.

I coveted the 60s RW strat for a while. I've owned a first-run tele and the short-lived Wayne Kramer strat (which was garbage). No disrespect to your strat but I would only have had an early one, the newer ones have a different relic job especially on the pickguard and I'm not into it. I also really wanted the mega-rare 72 deluxe roadworn tele in oly white. That was awesome.

I think it's one of the downsides of being a guitar gear nerd, is that you form your preferences into a kind of wishlist guitar, or amp, or whatever, and go looking for it, and it's so frustrating when you can't find it.

Weird thing is though is that on the few occasions I have found what I was looking for, I own it for a bit and then move it on. It's always the weird unexpected ones that stick around.

Not sure when was the first year but the serial number dates mine to 2008.

That's beautiful, mate.