Fender Princeton and Champ reissue prices...has the world gone mad?

SPECTRUM001

Epsilon said:

If anyone tries out the 68 Vibro Champ Reverb I'd be interested to hear how noisy it is. Many years ago I returned the 68 Princeton RI because the hum when the reverb and/or tremolo were turned up high was intolerable.

I am giving one a go at GG on Saturday. Been waiting months to at least hear it in the flesh.

Obviously its sound is the driver, but things like hum, hiss, ticking and/or overheating would not be properly apparent until trying in the quiet of home. Am also hooking up a J Rocket Archer Klon to get a feel for some artificial break up.

As already established, it is way too expensive for what it is, but I am intrigued.

dindude

SPECTRUM001 said:

Epsilon said:

If anyone tries out the 68 Vibro Champ Reverb I'd be interested to hear how noisy it is. Many years ago I returned the 68 Princeton RI because the hum when the reverb and/or tremolo were turned up high was intolerable.

I am giving one a go at GG on Saturday. Been waiting months to at least hear it in the flesh.

Obviously its sound is the driver, but things like hum, hiss, ticking and/or overheating would not be properly apparent until trying in the quiet of home. Am also hooking up a J Rocket Archer Klon to get a feel for some artificial break up.

As already established, it is way too expensive for what it is, but I am intrigued.

One turned up at my house earlier today. Is it noisey? Yeah kinda, but always inline with the volume you’re playing at, but it does have some hiss and stuff, but I personally don’t care a bit, nothing there to distract me. First impressions are very good, perfect volume for home and the first 5 watt amp I’ve ever played that makes a great pedal platform.

dazzajl

This new vibro is an interesting prospect but I’m trying to work out what it gives, size apart, that you don’t get plus more with a TM Deluxe Reverb.

munckee

dazzajl said:

This new vibro is an interesting prospect but I’m trying to work out what it gives, size apart, that you don’t get plus more with a TM Deluxe Reverb.

Much better tremolo hopefully. 

SPECTRUM001

dindude said:

SPECTRUM001 said:

Epsilon said:

If anyone tries out the 68 Vibro Champ Reverb I'd be interested to hear how noisy it is. Many years ago I returned the 68 Princeton RI because the hum when the reverb and/or tremolo were turned up high was intolerable.

I am giving one a go at GG on Saturday. Been waiting months to at least hear it in the flesh.

Obviously its sound is the driver, but things like hum, hiss, ticking and/or overheating would not be properly apparent until trying in the quiet of home. Am also hooking up a J Rocket Archer Klon to get a feel for some artificial break up.

As already established, it is way too expensive for what it is, but I am intrigued.

One turned up at my house earlier today. Is it noisey? Yeah kinda, but always inline with the volume you’re playing at, but it does have some hiss and stuff, but I personally don’t care a bit, nothing there to distract me. First impressions are very good, perfect volume for home and the first 5 watt amp I’ve ever played that makes a great pedal platform.

That’s very encouraging @dindude. I haven’t owned a valve amp for thirty years, so somewhat in the dark - would you be able to comment on whether the noise floor is what you would expect from a tube powered combo ?

Not something that would bother me on a larger gigging set up, but for home playing, I am aspiring to as quiet as possible (I don’t think I will learn this in the shop).

Sounds like you are impressed with the sounds !

Voxman

SPECTRUM001 said:

dindude said:

SPECTRUM001 said:

Epsilon said:

If anyone tries out the 68 Vibro Champ Reverb I'd be interested to hear how noisy it is. Many years ago I returned the 68 Princeton RI because the hum when the reverb and/or tremolo were turned up high was intolerable.

I am giving one a go at GG on Saturday. Been waiting months to at least hear it in the flesh.

Obviously its sound is the driver, but things like hum, hiss, ticking and/or overheating would not be properly apparent until trying in the quiet of home. Am also hooking up a J Rocket Archer Klon to get a feel for some artificial break up.

As already established, it is way too expensive for what it is, but I am intrigued.

One turned up at my house earlier today. Is it noisey? Yeah kinda, but always inline with the volume you’re playing at, but it does have some hiss and stuff, but I personally don’t care a bit, nothing there to distract me. First impressions are very good, perfect volume for home and the first 5 watt amp I’ve ever played that makes a great pedal platform.

That’s very encouraging @dindude. I haven’t owned a valve amp for thirty years, so somewhat in the dark - would you be able to comment on whether the noise floor is what you would expect from a tube powered combo ?

Not something that would bother me on a larger gigging set up, but for home playing, I am aspiring to as quiet as possible (I don’t think I will learn this in the shop).

Sounds like you are impressed with the sounds !

If you are looking for an all valve amp with a very low noise floor, check out the Laney Super Cub 12R. Great cleans, very nice reverb, great crunch and boost, fx loop, extn cab out, and a 1w and 15w input, and very quiet.  I have the original Cub12R and the noise floor is so quiet I have left in on once or twice because I couldn't hear it was on. And at £379 you could do a heck of a lot worse! Great reviews in mags and on youtube, equating it to a boutique amp, compact, and at only 26lbs or so it won't break your bank balance or your back. 

Epsilon

I think I'm probably more sensitive to amp noise than most. I wouldn't be playing it live or very loud, so will need to hear in person before putting any money down on one, I expect. Cheers for the info.

dindude

Honestly it’s nothing to worry about, it’s completely in proportion to the volume you’re playing at. It’s a valve amp. I think the Vibro champ sounds great, at 2 it’s almost whisper quiet, at 5 it fills the (bed)room with a pretty visceral noise. 

SPECTRUM001

Thanks ! 

Well I just got to demo it. Quite honestly, I was blown away. That might not have been too difficult, as I haven’t played with anything special before, however it gave out everything I have been looking for.

A cursory hum when on, and a bit of hiss if the reverb is above 6 or 7. The reverb sounded very responsive (I only had it set at around 4), though I thought the vibrato was a little more tame.

What really excited me was how I got a nice bite from the amp at quite low volume (again, only around 4). And then when I hooked up the Rockett Archer I achieved a nice natural sounding break up.

Also noticed just how much the volume climbed above 5 - wow, that would not be possible at home.

Finally (and this is new ground to me) it sounded responsive to my playing (ie if I attacked with more energy, it really sang out. My Vox AV doesn’t do that.

I was very impressed.

diap

Bear in mind that the Fender 57 custom champ is a solid pine cabinet and hand wired. No PCB in there.
Also bear in mind that some 'boutique' builders will build the same amp and charge even more than Fender!

Like everything you pays your money and takes your choice. If you are happy with your particle board Cub then that's all that matters.

Voxman

diap said:

Bear in mind that the Fender 57 custom champ is a solid pine cabinet and hand wired. No PCB in there.
Also bear in mind that some 'boutique' builders will build the same amp and charge even more than Fender!

Like everything you pays your money and takes your choice. If you are happy with your particle board Cub then that's all that matters.

I appreciate that. The Cub suits me because for classic rock I like Marshall's and it's based on a Marshall circuit; mine has a UK Vintage 30. Yes it's PCB not HW, hence it's a third of the cost, but tonally it punches way above its weight. 

I'm sure the 57 Champ is a nice little amp but it's just a 5w amp with a single volume control and 3 valves!! As I said at the start, the pricing at c£1100-1200' for what originally was supposed to be a basic inexpensive home practice amp is in my view crazy and Fender is taking the Michael.  But that's just my view.

But as you rightly say, you pays your money and takes your choice. And value is perceived so for those that think these are worth that kind of money, enjoy. Of course if you can pick one up used at a good price, then it becomes a bit more viable.  But at even £5-600 in my opinion it's still a lot of money.  Vox did something similar with its AC4 Handwired which was a lot cheaper and at least gave you some EQ controls.  But it was still just a home practice amp.

But there is one thing about the 57 Custom Champ...it makes the Princeton Reverb 65 or 68 look like great value in comparison. 

idiotwindow

I'm sure the 57 Champ is a nice little amp but it's just a 5w amp with a single volume control and 2 valves!!

3 valves. For a handwired amp, the price isn't unreasonable IMO. Plenty of people spend half the cost on a single boutique pedal.

Voxman

idiotwindow said:

I'm sure the 57 Champ is a nice little amp but it's just a 5w amp with a single volume control and 2 valves!!

3 valves. For a hardwired amp, the price isn't unreasonable IMO. Plenty of people spend half the cost on a single boutique pedal.

Sorry, typo on my part...Yes, 3 valves. I fully appreciate your perspective of course, but to me that price for a 5w practice amp with an 8" speaker and a single volume control, regardless of cabinet material and hand wired is simply insane. 

If I was going to spend that amount of money on a home/small club Fender amp I'd buy the 65 Princeton - whilst still hugely overpriced in my view, at least it has a 10" speaker, is 12 Watts, and has an EQ circuit, reverb and vibrato that makes it hugely more versatile. 

idiotwindow

Voxman said:

idiotwindow said:

I'm sure the 57 Champ is a nice little amp but it's just a 5w amp with a single volume control and 2 valves!!

3 valves. For a hardwired amp, the price isn't unreasonable IMO. Plenty of people spend half the cost on a single boutique pedal.

If I was going to spend that amount of money on a home/small club Fender amp I'd buy the 65 Princeton - whilst still hugely overpriced in my view, at least it has a 10" speaker, is 12 Watts, and has an EQ circuit, reverb and vibrato that makes it hugely more versatile. 

Yes, I wouldn't suggest a '57 Champ is the best way to spend a grand on guitar amplification but I'm not sure the price is out of whack compared to other Fender amps. A Princeton with hand-wiring and solid pine cabinet (a better apples-to-apples comparison) is in £2k territory.

dazzajl

The prices on the ordinary bulk build, pcb amps is definitely out of step with both Fender’s larger amps and what other companies offer for similar power and speaker options. That said, there isn’t anyone forcing competition on those prices. There really aren’t any cheaper alternatives for small 6V6 or 6L6 amps with valve driven tremolo available. The food chain starts with the Mexi Fenders and then gets more exotic. 

dindude

dazzajl said:

The prices on the ordinary bulk build, pcb amps is definitely out of step with both Fender’s larger amps and what other companies offer for similar power and speaker options. That said, there isn’t anyone forcing competition on those prices. There really aren’t any cheaper alternatives for small 6V6 or 6L6 amps with valve driven tremolo available. The food chain starts with the Mexi Fenders and then gets more exotic. 

Spot on. Even within the same range the 68 Princeton is only £200 more than the Vibro Champ, for that you’ve got a bigger louder amp with spring reverb, valve rectification and included foot switch, which is £60 to buy separately.

As a new owner of the 68 Vibro champ I think they are taking the piss a bit, even £699 or include the foot switch would be a little more like it. But as you say I was willing to pay it as there’s no completion for this amp out there unless you’re playing in boutique land. 

hoops

SPECTRUM001 said:

Thanks ! 

Well I just got to demo it. Quite honestly, I was blown away. That might not have been too difficult, as I haven’t played with anything special before, however it gave out everything I have been looking for.

A cursory hum when on, and a bit of hiss if the reverb is above 6 or 7. The reverb sounded very responsive (I only had it set at around 4), though I thought the vibrato was a little more tame.

What really excited me was how I got a nice bite from the amp at quite low volume (again, only around 4). And then when I hooked up the Rockett Archer I achieved a nice natural sounding break up.

Also noticed just how much the volume climbed above 5 - wow, that would not be possible at home.

Finally (and this is new ground to me) it sounded responsive to my playing (ie if I attacked with more energy, it really sang out. My Vox AV doesn’t do that.

I was very impressed.

Did you buy it?

dindude

SPECTRUM001 said:

Thanks ! 

Well I just got to demo it. Quite honestly, I was blown away. That might not have been too difficult, as I haven’t played with anything special before, however it gave out everything I have been looking for.

A cursory hum when on, and a bit of hiss if the reverb is above 6 or 7. The reverb sounded very responsive (I only had it set at around 4), though I thought the vibrato was a little more tame.

What really excited me was how I got a nice bite from the amp at quite low volume (again, only around 4). And then when I hooked up the Rockett Archer I achieved a nice natural sounding break up.

Also noticed just how much the volume climbed above 5 - wow, that would not be possible at home.

Finally (and this is new ground to me) it sounded responsive to my playing (ie if I attacked with more energy, it really sang out. My Vox AV doesn’t do that.

I was very impressed.

Been using mine all weekend and it is a great sounding thing. Bear in mind it has to compete with a Carr Rambler, it’s much more suited to the home volumes I play at without feeling like I’m compromising too much. OK it hasn’t got the enormous bottom end or hi fidelity of the Carr, bus also doesn’t feel like it’s being tamed too much. 

dazzajl

Uggghhhh. You guys are making this thing sound like I’d love it. 

SPECTRUM001

hoops said:

SPECTRUM001 said:

Thanks ! 

Well I just got to demo it. Quite honestly, I was blown away. That might not have been too difficult, as I haven’t played with anything special before, however it gave out everything I have been looking for.

A cursory hum when on, and a bit of hiss if the reverb is above 6 or 7. The reverb sounded very responsive (I only had it set at around 4), though I thought the vibrato was a little more tame.

What really excited me was how I got a nice bite from the amp at quite low volume (again, only around 4). And then when I hooked up the Rockett Archer I achieved a nice natural sounding break up.

Also noticed just how much the volume climbed above 5 - wow, that would not be possible at home.

Finally (and this is new ground to me) it sounded responsive to my playing (ie if I attacked with more energy, it really sang out. My Vox AV doesn’t do that.

I was very impressed.

Did you buy it?

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