1Q22 ffs build something - ThePrettyDamned

paulnb57

Ive done shed loads of aerosol bodies, a few tips
1 Quality paint, get it from your local Auto paint supplier to the trade, they will mix your colour of choice into an aerosol, far better quality than off the shelf from Halfords etc
2 Stand the can in warm water for a few mins, dry thoroughly, then apply to the body, it goes on much better and less chance of orange peel, I have never, ever, had to wet sand…
3 Pro quality cans have more paint to thinners and a better spray nozzle….

Good luck!

ThePrettyDamned

paulnb57 said:

Ive done shed loads of aerosol bodies, a few tips
1 Quality paint, get it from your local Auto paint supplier to the trade, they will mix your colour of choice into an aerosol, far better quality than off the shelf from Halfords etc
2 Stand the can in warm water for a few mins, dry thoroughly, then apply to the body, it goes on much better and less chance of orange peel, I have never, ever, had to wet sand…
3 Pro quality cans have more paint to thinners and a better spray nozzle….

Good luck!

Cheers! I'm going to have a go with water based MTN sprays, which might be a bit trickier than nitro.

If that doesn't work out, I will likely try a car shop mix up as you suggest - but noting it will delay things as I wait to be able to spray with ventilation. Water based means easier clean up for me.

I'm still not 100 percent sure the polyfilla will work, although it does say it can be used for a glass smooth finish when filling pores so we'll see how tests go. 

Jez6345789

Interesting project and be interested to see how the MTN water based works out not one I have tried but looks ideal if it can be used inside in a studio.

one thing I would say is ash/swamp ash  will need a shed ton of filling sanding back filling possibly a few rounds to get a filled level surface.

love GSP Basses stuff going to be a great project.

ThePrettyDamned

Jez6345789 said:

Interesting project and be interested to see how the MTN water based works out not one I have tried but looks ideal if it can be used inside in a studio.

one thing I would say is ash/swamp ash  will need a shed ton of filling sanding back filling possibly a few rounds to get a filled level surface.

love GSP Basses stuff going to be a great project.

Oh yes, it is big, open grain! 

I'm going to test grain fill next week with polyfilla fine surface - it's a user friendly one that has water clean up. However, I don't have test ash so I'll use mahogany instead. If successful, I'll try the guitar itself. If not, I might look for either osmo filler or try that expensive water based one,aquacoat. The main things are:
- it adheres well 
- any shrinking is done quickly
- it has a fine, talc-like grain for a smooth sanded surface 

Regular polycell polyfilla was too grainy but did a great job repairing my plasterboard! The fine surface looks much better. 

davros

I used the fine surface polyfilla many moons ago, and it was a pig to apply and just as bad to sand back.

I'm interested to try epoxy as shown in the new StewMac video series, supoosedly it goes on well and doesn't shrink.

WezV

I've tried epoxy and superglue as grainfiller in the distant past.   

I found them both to be a complete pain.  Wouldn't recommend superglue at all unless you have really good ventilation and a good mask.

I used West systems epoxy.  It's a proper finishing epoxy that sands quite well usually, but was still a pain to get consistent over an entire body.

Just be aware these kind of things take more practice and experience working with the glue to do well, and are a bigger pain to sort out if you get it wrong 

ThePrettyDamned

davros said:

I used the fine surface polyfilla many moons ago, and it was a pig to apply and just as bad to sand back.

I'm interested to try epoxy as shown in the new StewMac video series, supoosedly it goes on well and doesn't shrink.

Interesting... That sounds bad. 

Osmo customer service reckon their water based filler is fine for this and sands back easily - maybe I'll give it a go.

WezV said:

I've tried epoxy and superglue as grainfiller in the distant past.   

I found them both to be a complete pain.  Wouldn't recommend superglue at all unless you have really good ventilation and a good mask.

I used West systems epoxy.  It's a proper finishing epoxy that sands quite well usually, but was still a pain to get consistent over an entire body.

Just be aware these kind of things take more practice and experience working with the glue to do well, and are a bigger pain to sort out if you get it wrong 

I've seen z-poxy being used and it looks... Involved, maybe fine for less porous stuff but with swamp ash I feel like a paste that quickly gets the huge pores filled would be preferable. 

I'm not necessarily anti-sinkage on my finish, but I don't want to risk the whole lot coming off through cracking after 6 months. 

The rustins stuff worked perfectly, but being solvent based dried very fast, making it hard to work with - it also smells bad, and cleanup means needing to drop chemicals off at the local dump. Not friendly at all for working from a garage. I'd use it again on a smaller wood project, or even something more straightforward like a table top.

If anyone else has suggestions, I'm very open to them! I'm also going to look for some swamp ash offcuts on ebay to get a better idea of how it'll work out - although mahogany should get me close enough for a test... 

WezV

Testing is the best idea.  All the methods will work with practice.  

ThePrettyDamned

WezV said:

Testing is the best idea.  All the methods will work with practice.  

Honestly, testing is one of my favourite bits. Going from "oh shit, what am I doing?" to having some level of confidence in a process is so satisfying. 

RickLucas

I've had great results with zpoxy for  grain filling:

How to Pore Fill with Z-Poxy - Luthier Tips Du Jour Episode 143 - YouTube

ThePrettyDamned

RickLucas said:

I've had great results with zpoxy for  grain filling:

How to Pore Fill with Z-Poxy - Luthier Tips Du Jour Episode 143 - YouTube

This is one option, but it looks like it'll take several applications with swamp ash, as well as being a bit messy and harder to clean up. It is definitely an option though.

If polyfilla is bad, I'll be trying osmo water based, which the manufacturer has assured me works well, has a fine talc consistency and sands back well. If that fails, I'll be trying z-poxy, which I'd probably be trying first if I was working with alder or something similar. 

ThePrettyDamned

A boring post but proof I'm still thinking about this.

 

Left us osmo filler (watered down slightly for an easier work) and right is polycell polyfilla fine. Wood is mahogany, sanded to 400 grit. Not been super careful and left some scratches and dents in to get a feel for how well it works. So far, both seem fine - I'll sand back tomorrow to get an idea of which is easiest, but definitely prefer a water cleanup! 

TrentGuitars

Just to add another product into the mix ,Toupret TX110, it's basically Polyfilla but higher quality in my experience. I had a painting job once spraying up these multi laminate stacks of MDF which looked just likes cakes! I skimmed the end grain (basically the entire painted surface) with Toupret and was able to get an excellent grain fill.

https://www.toolstation.com/toupret-tx110-rapid-drying-interior-filler/p22146

ThePrettyDamned

TrentGuitars said:

Just to add another product into the mix ,Toupret TX110, it's basically Polyfilla but higher quality in my experience. I had a painting job once spraying up these multi laminate stacks of MDF which looked just likes cakes! I skimmed the end grain (basically the entire painted surface) with Toupret and was able to get an excellent grain fill.

https://www.toolstation.com/toupret-tx110-rapid-drying-interior-filler/p22146

I couldn't find any locally but if osmo and polyfilla are not good it's next on my order list! 

TrentGuitars

ThePrettyDamned said:

TrentGuitars said:

Just to add another product into the mix ,Toupret TX110, it's basically Polyfilla but higher quality in my experience. I had a painting job once spraying up these multi laminate stacks of MDF which looked just likes cakes! I skimmed the end grain (basically the entire painted surface) with Toupret and was able to get an excellent grain fill.

https://www.toolstation.com/toupret-tx110-rapid-drying-interior-filler/p22146

I couldn't find any locally but if osmo and polyfilla are not good it's next on my order list! 

Brewers, toolstation and screwfix carry it at their stores  

ThePrettyDamned

TrentGuitars said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

TrentGuitars said:

Just to add another product into the mix ,Toupret TX110, it's basically Polyfilla but higher quality in my experience. I had a painting job once spraying up these multi laminate stacks of MDF which looked just likes cakes! I skimmed the end grain (basically the entire painted surface) with Toupret and was able to get an excellent grain fill.

https://www.toolstation.com/toupret-tx110-rapid-drying-interior-filler/p22146

I couldn't find any locally but if osmo and polyfilla are not good it's next on my order list! 

Brewers, toolstation and screwfix carry it at their stores  

Excellent. There is a screw fix nearby so maybe I'll drop by next weekend, although I'm hoping one of the ones I already have works out, save a few quid towards your recommended primer

I wish there were metallic water based acrylics in the mtn range...

I've also ordered some DIY caps for the sprays - they come with round nozzles as standard, I've found a selection of fan ones that I think are adjustable for horizontal or vertical orientation which should help get nice, thin, even coats. 

TrentGuitars

ThePrettyDamned said:

TrentGuitars said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

TrentGuitars said:

Just to add another product into the mix ,Toupret TX110, it's basically Polyfilla but higher quality in my experience. I had a painting job once spraying up these multi laminate stacks of MDF which looked just likes cakes! I skimmed the end grain (basically the entire painted surface) with Toupret and was able to get an excellent grain fill.

https://www.toolstation.com/toupret-tx110-rapid-drying-interior-filler/p22146

I couldn't find any locally but if osmo and polyfilla are not good it's next on my order list! 

Brewers, toolstation and screwfix carry it at their stores  

Excellent. There is a screw fix nearby so maybe I'll drop by next weekend, although I'm hoping one of the ones I already have works out, save a few quid towards your recommended primer

I wish there were metallic water based acrylics in the mtn range...

I've also ordered some DIY caps for the sprays - they come with round nozzles as standard, I've found a selection of fan ones that I think are adjustable for horizontal or vertical orientation which should help get nice, thin, even coats. 

Yeah, the way MTN cans work is to change out the caps for whatever you’re looking for, the stock caps do actually coat nicely but it’s very much a ‘mist’ kind of vibe. It gives a really nice matted look but you can knock it back smooth quite easily between coats. 

ThePrettyDamned

Both fillers sanded just fine.

 

Noting these are defect-full scrap pieces - I'm interested in grain filling, not hole filling! 

Anyway, I think both shrunk back a bit so I suspect when it comes to the real thing I may apply a second coat of grain fill.

Anyway, sanded to 600 grit and sprayed first coat. Warmed the can in the sink which may not have been a great idea - the second test piece has drips. It could be the finish doesn't work so great on poly fill, could be 600 grit is too fine, could be I need practise spraying. Likely the latter.



Drying in the balcony while I have lunch, then I'll rub back with 600 grit gently and apply a second coat. This is very thin coats, but maybe it's already too heavy so this time I'll have a bit more distance and a much lighter touch. 

ThePrettyDamned

Feel a bit silly. Three coats on, seems fine and all that, but I forgot to get an acrylic sealer. I think, with that, I'll have a more even finish regardless of the rest.

With that said, I don't like the spray shape at all - I am looking forward to getting a fan! 

Three coats is pushing it. One the real thing I'll do two at most per day, to make sure the thin coats dry properly. Maybe even just one


No nasty smells at all, though, and the sprays are nice and low pressure. I think it's going to be good - just want to practise the colour, clear and buff and then I'll be ready to start. 

Pick of the fillers is osmo so far. Seems to have shrunk back a bit more, but I am a bit worries about those drips. I can't work out if it was poor spray technique or if there is an incompatibility. 

ThePrettyDamned

4 thin coats of white seems to be a pretty good coverage, and the finish is a nice, even satin. The osmo pore fill shrunk back less than the polyfilla, so that'll be my choice - and I will fill at least twice, possibly a third, to ensure it is as smooth as possible.

I'll also be using chestnut acrylic sealer before spraying the finish, so I'll need to test that before I attack the guitar with it to make sure the finish is friendly to it.

So... 4 coats (ish) of white as an under colour, likely I'll need 4-6 coats of blue to go on that, then lots of coats of the clear coat - I expect I'll need a few more coats of this, and likely multiple can, to achieve a nice, smooth finish. However, so far, so impressed - it's certainly nice to be able to have the pieces drying indoors without nasty smells, and the acrylic does seem relatively tough.