1Q22 ffs build something - ThePrettyDamned

ThePrettyDamned

A look at the gloss:

 
It *feels* fantastic. Really slick and smooth, not sticky at all. However it's a bit bobbly/orange peel ish, and it's definitely a bit soft. 

I'm going to have one more go using a much thinner schedule - one coat sealer, one coat white, two coats blue, one misting of silver and then clear - but I don't think it'll give the result I want...

So... I might consider nitrocellulose if that fails, but if so it will take some time. I'll also want to practise - I'm thinking maybe testing Manchester guitar tech's clear blue over inca silver for a sort of candy apple red... But blue. But not sure yet - I don't think I have the space for that. 

Other options include staining then using a rubbed on clear, like chestnut acrylic - a water based acrylic shouldn't upset a solvent based stain. But it's not really the finish I'm looking for I think. 

paulnb57

I would suggest leaving lots of time between coats, otherwise I doubt it will ever properly harden…

ThePrettyDamned

So, after some help from @TrentGuitars and reading the data sheet, it appears these cans are actually a modified polyurethane, not acrylic. That changes how I approach the finish - it doesn't just dry, it does cure.

So, I'm running another test - again, thin coats, allowed to dry and rubbed back with 600 grit. Once it's got a nearly full coverage, the curing seems to slow down - this tallies with my experience with other finishes as well, but it *does* continue to harden over time. So, first few coats is a 1-day job easily - all went on great and sanded lovely. From there, it's more likely to be 1 coat per day or three - although as it warms up a bit this could change.

Anyway, I've now got a nice white finish on a test piece and I'll give it some time to cure before I spray clear. I think I'll try the primer recommended by @TrentGuitars - otex akva water based - as this means I'll be able to apply my colour to a primer, instead of to another colour - I imagine this leads to a faster curing finish, given the above. Currently, the plan was to spray white as base colour, then spray colour on top - I think I'll look into otex akva as something to paint on with a sponge and sand back, which should give a lovely base. This also saves me from spraying a sealer. 

My first gloss test, while still a bit soft (applied too thick coats so I'm expecting it to stay that way for a while!) it's gorgeously glossy and feels amazing - smooth and slick. It sands nicely despite being a bit soft at the moment and I think it will be really easy to cut with 800 grit, run up to 2000 grit then polish with t-cut and other compounds for a glassy finish.

Feeling very positive about this. Can't say how lovely it is to use stuff that smells fine and doesn't need dangerous solvents to clean up. I'm spraying my tests indoors without a mask or anything, just a shoe box as a mini booth to catch overspray and a sheet on the floor just in case. 

A quick point of recommendation - BUY THE DIY NOZZLE SET. The red nozzles are super wide and make a much more controllable spray. They can also be rotated if needed. I imagine short passes with a 50 percent overlap will work out perfectly on a larger piece. 

paulnb57

Interesting…
Spraycan nozzles do make a huge difference, 50% overlap sounds a bit much, but if it works for you, then great! Application is a balance of distance from the surface being sprayed, speed of movement and overlap…
When you are ready to do the guitar be aware that an amazing amount of paint goes into the atmosphere, which then settles everywhere in the room…

ThePrettyDamned

Not going to lie, I love the gloss spray. This is 4 coats, sanded between each one. It's still a *bit* soft, but actually does harden over time - I think the cold weather does not help. Being polyurethane it does indeed cure. Feeling very confident with this, and should be able to start working on the guitar next weekend - starting with sanding and grain fill.

Neck will remain unfinished for a time - I need to drill holes for the screws for the tuners, and I don't have the tuners yet. That'll happen in a month or so probably - gotta watch the pennies. 

lovestrat74

Colour looks great Paul

ThePrettyDamned

lovestrat74 said:

Colour looks great Paul

A shame, because it won't be this colour! 

I don't like it - it's a bit too dark for me. I'm going to look at yellow, orange, shell pink, duck egg etc - this is pretty dark for my tastes.

Think I'll stick with my silver stripes idea, but that'll need a bit of practice in itself. 

paulnb57

That looks very good

ThePrettyDamned

So, happy with finish and technique (although can't source more cans of the gloss at the moment. Have written to a couple of companies to ask when stock arrives...)...

Next thing I want to think about is the headstock. The neck will have a rubbed polyurethane finish, again, going to source a water based one. However, the headstock is a beautiful rosewood veneer and I don't want to spray it matching the body (obviously). 

So, I want to apply a decal I think - maybe a silver one. There are suppliers out there that will take a custom design so I may do that. I don't know whether I want it to be my name/signature or whether I'll do a design (probably a bee or a bird). Silver should stand out nicely, and I can spray the headstock with clear instead of using a rubbed finish. 

So, on hold for now unfortunately. I need more paint - it'll take (I believe) one can of colour and probably 2-3 clear to get a good enough finish where I can flat sand and polish. I'll use a primer instead of spraying white, which should be easier, faster and cheaper. 

Pickups I'm torn on. I am sort of tempted to get the lace alumitone soapbars, but they're very expensive. They look great though, and I like the idea of this sounding like nothing else available. They are also low noise, which is neat. I'll keep an eye out used. This won't be finished by Q1 for sure! 

ThePrettyDamned

Next boring post. More testing. This time, primer - I know I don't *need* a primer, but as the finish wears away, I think it looks cool to have a white primer underneath. So I'm priming. This is brushed on with a foam brush - I do not recommend. A normal brush will be much better and less patchy/line-y. Still, it will let me know how the finish takes. I need to make sure I can scrape the binding - if I can't, I'll need to mask as best I can so I just tidy up the edges. 

Anyway, the primer doesn't smell. Water based rules. 

 

paulnb57

Im enjoying your experiments and findings

ThePrettyDamned

This arrived today - nearly ready to finish the neck, but need to drill pilot holes first.
This should be as easy as rag/brush it on. Water and soap clean up and non-smelly. Neck will get it first, but I do have a test piece of maple first. 

 
Milk paint should arrive soon and hopefully will adhere well to the primer - apparently milk paint can be tricky if not raw wood. If it doesn't like the primer, I will have to leave my guitar without and just accept it'll wear through to wood. 

WezV

if you can do the milk paint on raw wood then i would.

ThePrettyDamned

WezV said:

if you can do the milk paint on raw wood then i would.

I certainly can, but I quite fancy the colour wearing to white wearing to wood, so I'm going to test it to see how it goes and report back. It's a very good primer (otex akva, had a couple of recommendations for this) and apparently lets anything stick to anything pretty much, but we'll see. If not, it'll be used on my bathroom walls as they need filling and painting this year...  

But yes, I'm interested to see whether it does work as milk paint is a bit fussy. As far as primer goes, it's nice though. It does a nice job filling in any remaining pores the grain fill missed, so it will definitely be used at some point! 

ThePrettyDamned

Primer seems to be a no-go with milk paint. No fault of the primer I think - I tested on smooth and keyed primer, and while keyed worked it didn't offer any tangible benefit. The unkeyed had very minor adhesion issues in places, giving an uneven look. While further coats would fix it, I'm not sure I'd want to risk the finish not adhering properly. Thanks @WezV for the tip! 

Milk paint dries fairly quick (about 30 minutes dry enough, and after a couple of hours it's easily able to sand back). Sands very well, but so far my attempt is bubbly. Sands back fine, then a new coat is bubbly again. I think I'm mixing too hard - I need to stir gently for longer to get the mix right. However, the colour is beautiful, and when it is dry it's very hard, thin and seems fairly hard wearing even without a top coat (although that will give protection from wear and tear!). 

The clear is... Interesting. I started by promptly not reading the instructions and got a very uneven finish. Then I read instructions and watched some videos - turns out, due to such a fast dry time, you basically use a heavier coat to self-level. This worked very well - still some brush lines, but after a few coats it'll level sand and buff nicely. Speaking of which, it's ready to sand after 4 hours or so easily, and sands very well. No tint at all to it whatsoever - I put it on flamed maple, and it just looks like glossier flame maple. I'll probably mix a very dilute yellow/orange stain up and get some colour on the neck before using the top coat because of this - it will leave a white piece of maple white! 

Ordered tuners. Went for gotoh sd90s. If it ain't broke... They're good tuners and excellent value. Open gears nearly doubled the price. 

Just need pickups, toggle switch and strap buttons now I think.

WezV

you cad add some "extra bond" to the milk paint when its going over another finish, but it's not needed on raw wood.  i've not tried this though

ThePrettyDamned

WezV said:

you cad add some "extra bond" to the milk paint when its going over another finish, but it's not needed on raw wood.  i've not tried this though

I saw that, but it's so tough I can't imagine it ageing quite as quickly as nitro or wudtone, so I'm going to focus on making a beautiful finish. I will still be grain filling though, I tested on non-grain filled and the grain causes more bubbles and quite severe pitting and cracking.

Not hideous, but not the look I want. Even a moderately poor grain fill on the same test piece avoided this entirely, but I do need to work on smooth application. 

ThePrettyDamned

Always get nervous about drilling pilot holes for tuners. I hate when they are not perfectly straight, and this headstock is a bit of a challenge! Luckily, the ebony stripes give me something to line up before I pencil hole locations in.

 
The buttons are not that green... They're more cream. 

ThePrettyDamned

Luckily, only 1 out of 6 was misdrilled by a wandering bit. That'll learn me. Luckily, it's *just* within tolerance and the tuner functions fine. 

Next job - light sand back to remove fuzzies and clean wood, then apply first coat of clear. Not going to tint it I think. 

 

ThePrettyDamned

Very, very happy with general finishes high performance gloss. This is the neck after 4 very thin coats (as in, ragged on - not brushed - in an effort to reduce the amount of work needed on the fretboard). The pink test piece has a couple of heavy coats, sanded back to be sort-of level, then 4 ragged on coats. No polishing yet - between each coat on the neck I denib with 320 grit sandpaper very, very gently just to smooth it off.

 

I did wet the neck with water and let it dry to raise any final fuzzies first, so I could remove them. I imagine, if I hadn't, I'd have more work to get a slick finish. But it looks good and feels beautiful - I'll be adding a few more coats, the wood is completely sealed now so a small amount goes a long way. The first coat was absorbed somewhat, and a fair amount was needed.

No smell, dries in... 20 minutes? But I'm giving it 45 or so to be sure. All work done in my flat, other than the light sanding which I am doing on the balcony. What a fabulous process - can absolutely recommend for necks. Rags can be reused - just wash in warm soapy water, wring out with fresh water to remove soap and let it dry. 

I wonder how the body will go - I think the front and back will be easy, just brush on and leave it flat to dry (so only one side at a time). The sides, I may actually just rub the finish with a rag to avoid dripping, and accept the first coat or two may move the milk paint slightly. Once that's done, I'll be using a rag on the whole guitar for ease of getting a super smooth finish.

After all that, I'll see whether I need to sand from 1000 to 4000 grit, or whether I'll just jump straight to buffing...