Spotify removes Neil Young

Evan

I think this puts it quite nicely.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/01/27/hippies-for-censorship/

poopot

Cols said:

It takes true character to do what’s right when no one else is doing it and there’s little chance of success.  Both Young and Mitchell are showing true integrity by saying “Doing the right thing and refusing to be part of a platform which spreads dangerous misinformation is more important to me than my streaming income”.

Nope… no one is missing the point… 

the issue isn’t which is more profitable for Spotify…

the issue is no one should be able to demand censorship… regardless of what misinformation is being spouted…

”Rocking in the free world”? As long as it doesn’t go against your own views eh Mr Young?

darthed1981

I've always found Spotify's deal with Rogan troubling.

Problem is, I'm not that bothered by Neil Young

chrisj1602

I Stand With Neil Young!

Posted January 28, 2022

I’ve decided to remove all my music from Spotify. Irresponsible people are spreading lies that are costing people their lives. I stand in solidarity with Neil Young and the global scientific and medical communities on this issue. —Joni Mitchell

Evan

chrisj1602 said:

I Stand With Neil Young!

Posted January 28, 2022

I’ve decided to remove all my music from Spotify. Irresponsible people are spreading lies that are costing people their lives. I stand in solidarity with Neil Young and the global scientific and medical communities on this issue. —Joni Mitchell

Silly moo - the “global scientific community” has been all over the place on this. Last years conspiracy theories and “misinformation” are this years truth. She stands with corporate censorship!

dindude

Rogan isn’t my cup of tea for sure, and I listen to enough of NY music and use Spotify enough that this is a bit of an arse. I’m torn between NY taking a stance on something he believes in and the whole censorship issue. Ultimately though, the censorship angle is diluted massively by the fact Spotify are paying Rogan a shit tonne of cash. So on balance, go NY! 

sev112

My gues is , like the Amazon visa thing, a compromise will be developed by Amazon / rogan / young et al with rogan and his ilk making a statement to the satisfaction of Amazon / young etc etc 

(because there will surely be others that will follow, and it doesn’t take much for a lot of users to swap to other equivalent priced streaming products, and then they will start losing income at which point Amazon will start considering what people say “in their name”

poopot

dindude said:

Spotify are paying Rogan a shit tonne of cash. 

No there’s a proper issue!… you’d need at least a billion streams to get the same amount they’ve paid Rogan… Spotify value him more than any musician!!!!

if Neil young had come out and said “I’m taking my music down in protest of the unfair way Spotify pay their content providers” I could get behind that. As would everyone else I think…

but the fact is he has stated “him or me” over the content and because it opposes what he believes in…

that’s censorship, fascism and the mark of a c£&t!…

andysc

All this talk of corporate censorship and accusing Neil Young and now Joni Mitchell of censorship and quoting free speech are missing the point of free speech. Free speech is often misunderstood. Joe Rogan has the absolute right to say whatever nonsense he likes as long as it isn’t against the law to say so. That doesn’t mean he has the absolute right to be protected from any consequences of that, or that he has the absolute right to a particular platform he wants to spread that speech.

Neil Young decided he didn’t want to be associated with a company making money from COVID opinions he didn’t agree with. That’s his call. He decided the consequence of Spotify’s decision was that he didn’t want his music on their platform. Absolutely no censorship has happened or been suggested. Telling somebody that if they keep platforming an opinion you don’t like then you don’t want to make money from their platform is not censorship. He isn’t saying the police should be arresting Joe Rogan and that it should be illegal to be anti-vaccine.

And that opinion is completely separate from my opinion the Joe Rogan is probably a prat but I have no desire at all to waste any time listening to his podcast and finding out.

poopot

andysc said:

Absolutely no censorship has happened or been suggested. Telling somebody that if they keep platforming an opinion you don’t like then you don’t want to make money from their platform is not censorship. He isn’t saying the police should be arresting Joe Rogan and that it should be illegal to be anti-vaccine.

He gave Spotify an ultimatum

 “him or me”

that is wanting censorship…

I’ve not heard rogan or have any desire to… but… as far as I can tell… he’s not broken the law… not fallen foul of any broadcasting standards… so he can have his soap box really…

And Neil young has no right to demand he’s taken down… if he wants to pull his stuff because he doesn’t agree with what spotify are putting out then fair enough… but the “him or me” bit doesn’t sit well with me!…

Cols

“Corporate censorship” @evan and @poopot?  Not really.

Neither Joni Mitchell nor Neil Young are corporations, neither do they have the power of censorship.  Unless you’re referring to censoring themselves by removing their own music from a platform, which I don’t think you are.

They’re taking a stand on the grounds of their morals and integrity, and saying “I’m not going to be on the same bill as Joe Rogan, and this is why”.  Spotify are not the plucky underdogs here.

Here’s a hypothetical scenario from back when Joni and Neil were relevant to that lucrative 18-35 demographic:

”Mr Hendrix, we’re putting on a festival in upstate New York, and we’d like you to play at it.  We’ll give you a huge sack of cash for the gig.”

”Sounds cool.”

”By the way, the Klan are going to be on the bill as well.  Keeping things inclusive.”

”Ah.  Hard pass, man”

”You sure?  Festival’s going ahead with or without you.”

”Have fun.  I ain’t playing at it.”

Jota

The guys calling "censorship" completely forget Rogan wasn't on Spotify before they gave him the cash! Was he being censored because he wasn't there before?

That's the big problem with the article on the top of this page:
"No wonder Spotify recently snapped it up for a cool $100million, in the process pissing off some of its own woke staff as well as Young and other people who believe, quite remarkably, that they have the right to glide through life without ever encountering an utterance they disapprove of."

No, they just don't want to be part of a platform that helps spread those "utterances".

@andysc nailed it on his post.

poopot

Cols said:

“Corporate censorship” @evan and @poopot?  Not really.

Neither Joni Mitchell nor Neil Young are corporations, neither do they have the power of censorship.  Unless you’re referring to censoring themselves by removing their own music from a platform, which I don’t think you are.

They’re taking a stand on the grounds of their morals and integrity, and saying “I’m not going to be on the same bill as Joe Rogan, and this is why”.  Spotify are not the plucky underdogs here.

Here’s a hypothetical scenario from back when Joni and Neil were relevant to that lucrative 18-35 demographic:

”Mr Hendrix, we’re putting on a festival in upstate New York, and we’d like you to play at it.  We’ll give you a huge sack of cash for the gig.”

”Sounds cool.”

”By the way, the Klan are going to be on the bill as well.  Keeping things inclusive.”

”Ah.  Hard pass, man”

”You sure?  Festival’s going ahead with or without you.”

”Have fun.  I ain’t playing at it.”

Again… 

neil young gave Spotify the ultimatum:

”Him or Me”…

Here’s a hypothetical scenario for you

”Oi, Spotify, that bloke who I don’t agree with, pull his stuff from your platform”

”certainly mr young, whatever you say mr young”

You’d all be shouting “what about free speech?” Asap

It’s great that Neil young had stuck to his convictions and pulled his stuff after Spotify said they wouldn’t capitulate to his demands…but let’s not kid ourselves, what Neil young wanted was to have someone else content removed because it didn’t fit with his viewpoint…

and all from a bloke who has routed for free speech his entire career!…

tbh, I don’t have a horse in this race either way… but I can clearly see that it’s a dick move on the part of young… 

thecolourbox

I think he'd be fairly sure they'd not be too bothered about his music not being on there to be honest

Evan

Cols said:

“Corporate censorship” @evan and @poopot?  Not really.

Neither Joni Mitchell nor Neil Young are corporations, neither do they have the power of censorship.  Unless you’re referring to censoring themselves by removing their own music from a platform, which I don’t think you are.

They’re taking a stand on the grounds of their morals and integrity, and saying “I’m not going to be on the same bill as Joe Rogan, and this is why”.  Spotify are not the plucky underdogs here.

Here’s a hypothetical scenario from back when Joni and Neil were relevant to that lucrative 18-35 demographic:

”Mr Hendrix, we’re putting on a festival in upstate New York, and we’d like you to play at it.  We’ll give you a huge sack of cash for the gig.”

”Sounds cool.”

”By the way, the Klan are going to be on the bill as well.  Keeping things inclusive.”

”Ah.  Hard pass, man”

”You sure?  Festival’s going ahead with or without you.”

”Have fun.  I ain’t playing at it.”

They are trying to use what power they have to pressure a huge corporation into censoring someone they have been told is some sort of bad guy/conspiracy theorist. Neil Young more or less admitted he’d never watched Joe Rogan and I suspect Mitchell hasn’t either. 

Evan

I’m sort of shocked at the impulse to censor being shown by a lot of people on this thread. Rationalise it any way you want, but know what you’re agitating for - suppression of free speech.

Jota

Evan said:

I’m sort of shocked at the impulse to censor being shown by a lot of people on this thread. Rationalise it any way you want, but know what you’re agitating for - suppression of free speech.

Spotify has policies to kick anyone who doesn't follow their rules! Is that censorship?!

andysc

It really isn’t a censorship issue.

Look at it this way - I as a consumer may decide I don’t like the fact the service I am paying a subscription for uses a large chunk of that money to provide a platform for someone whose views I don’t agree with. If I choose to cancel my subscription in protest is that me acting against free speech? I don’t think so. So I don’t see what Neil Young did as any different to that. Spotify have the choice of platforming any legal views they want. Their customers and suppliers have the option of working with them and purchasing from them, or not doing so.

Free speech doesn’t mean no private citizens are allowed to decide they don’t want to work with you any more as a consequence of your speech, or don’t want to share a platform with you.

Evan

Jota said:

Evan said:

I’m sort of shocked at the impulse to censor being shown by a lot of people on this thread. Rationalise it any way you want, but know what you’re agitating for - suppression of free speech.

Spotify has policies to kick anyone who doesn't follow their rules! Is that censorship?!

If their rules are based on bias or ideological in nature, like Facebook, YouTube etc, then yes, that’s censorship. They would just be hiding behind “policies”.

Jota

Evan said:

Jota said:

Evan said:

I’m sort of shocked at the impulse to censor being shown by a lot of people on this thread. Rationalise it any way you want, but know what you’re agitating for - suppression of free speech.

Spotify has policies to kick anyone who doesn't follow their rules! Is that censorship?!

If their rules are based on bias or ideological in nature, like Facebook, YouTube etc, then yes, that’s censorship. They would just be hiding behind “policies”.

Tell me you don't know what censorship is without telling me you don't know what censorship is...