Spotify removes Neil Young

poopot

Jota said:

poopot said:

m_c said:

My take on it, is for a platform that claims they pay artists fairly and can't afford to pay them more, they seem to be able to pay somebody an awful lot of money to talk random shit.

Agreed… as previously said, an artist would need a billion streams to get the same revenue as rogan has got…

but… I don’t think this spat has anything to do with revenue… Neil young has put his music online for free https://m.neilyoungarchives.com/

this Is all about Neil young not agreeing with Rogans point of view… and that’s fine… young is free to do what he wants.

however, the question is:

”is it right for one artist to demand Spotify removes another artist because they have opposing views?”

my answer is no!… it’s not correct…

and it would be the same answer for me if it was rogan offering the intimation about young…

another hypothetical:

metallica demand McFly are taken down because McFlys output doesn’t fit with the Metallica ideal!

It's not opposing views, it's actually breaking Spotify terms. 
They say the remove thousands of podcast because of covid disinformation but they pay Rogan to do it! It doesn't make sense!

“We want all the world’s music and audio content to be available to Spotify users,” the company said in a statement. “With that comes great responsibility in balancing both safety for listeners and freedom for creators. We have detailed content policies in place and we’ve removed over 20,000 podcast episodes related to Covid-19 since the start of the pandemic. We regret Neil’s decision to remove his music from Spotify, but hope to welcome him back soon.” 

https://www-rollingstone-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/neil-youngs-spotify-joe-rogan-music-down-1291062/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw==#aoh=16435372893787&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=De %1$s&ampshare=https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/neil-youngs-spotify-joe-rogan-music-down-1291062/

So… if that’s the case rogans content doesn’t break spotifys rules… regardless of if the pay him… I’ve not listened and have no intention of listening to it so I can only guess that’s the case…

for me, if Neil young had issued a press release saying: - “I don’t agree with rogan therefore I’m requesting my content is removed from Spotify” then fair play… I’d get behind that… But he didn’t… he went with “him or me” and he can’t have it both ways… can’t argue for freedom of speech and demand someone has theirs removed…

the other issue is the way it’s been reported.

”Spotify removed Neil young”

yeah… at the request of Neil young!!!! They didn’t just take his stuff down after he said “him or me” they’ve even stated they’d have him back ffs…

at the end of the day this is not going to hurt either of them… lots of folk who would know Neil young may now actually listen to his material… just not on Spotify… 

Philtre

Neil Young nor Joni Mitchell don't want to be associated with the cancerous vomit spewing out of Rogan's mouth. Easy to understand that.

poopot

Philtre said:

Neil Young nor Joni Mitchell don't want to be associated with the cancerous vomit spewing out of Rogan's mouth. Easy to understand that.

Which is absolutely 100% commendable and very easy to understand…

is it right that young “demands” rogan be removed or he walks tho’?

idiotwind

This is what Neil Young wrote:

to:
Frank Gironda Lookout management,
Tom Corson Warner Brothers,

Please immediately inform Spotify that I am actively canceling all my music availability on Spotify as soon as possible. I am doing this because SPOTIFY is spreading false information about vaccines - potentially causing death to those who believe the disinformation being spread by them.

Please act on this immediately today and keep me informed of the time schedule. I want you to let SPOTIFY know immediately TODAY that I want all my music off their platform. They can have Rogan or Young. Not both.

Thanks,
love earth
be well
Neil Young

He didn't "demand" Rogan be removed, he specifically said to take his music off

poopot

idiotwind said:

They can have Rogan or Young. Not both.

Looks like an ultimatum to me…

thecolourbox

poopot said:

idiotwind said:

They can have Rogan or Young. Not both.

Looks like an ultimatum to me…

But one which he had already assumed the outcome would be to remove him, which he requested

Philtre

They can have cancerous vomit from a right-wing nut job or Young. Not both.

Sounds reasonable to me...

poopot

thecolourbox said:

poopot said:

idiotwind said:

They can have Rogan or Young. Not both.

Looks like an ultimatum to me…

But one which he had already assumed the outcome would be to remove him, which he requested

Spotify would not have “removed” him tho’ would they?

spotify wouldn’t have said “we choose rogan, jog on Neil”… 

thecolourbox

poopot said:

thecolourbox said:

poopot said:

idiotwind said:

They can have Rogan or Young. Not both.

Looks like an ultimatum to me…

But one which he had already assumed the outcome would be to remove him, which he requested

Spotify would not have “removed” him tho’ would they?

spotify wouldn’t have said “we choose rogan, jog on Neil”… 

Well they treated his correspondence as a request to remove him, which they then did?

poopot

thecolourbox said:

Well they treated his correspondence as a request to remove him, which they then did?

If you have music on Spotify and request it’s taken down that’s exactly what Spotify will do… because they have to if that’s what the rightsholder asks them to do!…

as I’ve said many times I think his thread… I don’t have a horse in this race… I don’t listen to Neil young, I’ve never heard of rogan till this thread and still not listened to him and Spotify can fuck off as far as I’m concerned because they don’t pay what they should to the people who provide the content to their platform…

but!…

“Spotify removes Neil young” is a sensationalist headline… 

neil young stating “him or me” IS wanting someone shut up because he holds opposing views and is a dick move in my book…

rogan, as long as he’s not breaking the law can say what the fuck he likes… you don’t have to 1) listen or 2) believe it…

on that note, I’m off to play guitar and carry on with the next album!!!!

peace out

Jota

poopot said:

Jota said:

poopot said:

m_c said:

My take on it, is for a platform that claims they pay artists fairly and can't afford to pay them more, they seem to be able to pay somebody an awful lot of money to talk random shit.

Agreed… as previously said, an artist would need a billion streams to get the same revenue as rogan has got…

but… I don’t think this spat has anything to do with revenue… Neil young has put his music online for free https://m.neilyoungarchives.com/

this Is all about Neil young not agreeing with Rogans point of view… and that’s fine… young is free to do what he wants.

however, the question is:

”is it right for one artist to demand Spotify removes another artist because they have opposing views?”

my answer is no!… it’s not correct…

and it would be the same answer for me if it was rogan offering the intimation about young…

another hypothetical:

metallica demand McFly are taken down because McFlys output doesn’t fit with the Metallica ideal!

It's not opposing views, it's actually breaking Spotify terms. 
They say the remove thousands of podcast because of covid disinformation but they pay Rogan to do it! It doesn't make sense!

“We want all the world’s music and audio content to be available to Spotify users,” the company said in a statement. “With that comes great responsibility in balancing both safety for listeners and freedom for creators. We have detailed content policies in place and we’ve removed over 20,000 podcast episodes related to Covid-19 since the start of the pandemic. We regret Neil’s decision to remove his music from Spotify, but hope to welcome him back soon.” 

https://www-rollingstone-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/neil-youngs-spotify-joe-rogan-music-down-1291062/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw==#aoh=16435372893787&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=De %1$s&ampshare=https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/neil-youngs-spotify-joe-rogan-music-down-1291062/

So… if that’s the case rogans content doesn’t break spotifys rules… regardless of if the pay him… I’ve not listened and have no intention of listening to it so I can only guess that’s the case…

https://www-rollingstone-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/covid-misinformation-joe-rogan-spotify-petition-1282240/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw==#aoh=16435447049583&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=De %1$s&ampshare=https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/covid-misinformation-joe-rogan-spotify-petition-1282240/

darthed1981

Joe Rogan, who I've never listened to, is part of Spotify's strategy to "differentiate" themselves.

They in rather an awkward position as despite being first to market, they really offer nothing anyone else can't do, so Amazon, Apple, Google etc. have all done the same thing.  Spotify still seem to be way ahead with their playlists and interface, but that only lasts so long.

So podcasts, which unlike music can be exclusive to the platform are a way of doing that.  Most of the other tricks have been tried, Tidal with their "we pay Jay-Z and Beyonce more", cough sorry "we pay artists more..." and so on.  Google have integrated Youtube, which could be a winner.

Long story short, if a man in his 70s who is mostly listened to by the "I still buy CDs none of this new-fangled streaming nonsense" age bracket has a strop, they aren't going to change their whole strategy.

As for Rogan?  Everyone has been missing the point for years IMHO.  Our democracy survives because of two things: -

1.  American military hegemony.

2.  A fundamental trust in our government and institutions.

The first ending was bound to happen eventually, and in the long run spending trillions on defense but not having universal healthcare has always seemed eccentric, even before China made a comeback.

But... the fall of trust in governments and institutions, which can be blamed on the governments and institutions themselves (this stretches back to the second Iraq war BTW, Boris' parties are just the latest thing) but also social media, and the idea that anyone with a laptop, google and an unschooled opinion can potentially have a point as valid as a professor or professional... the list goes on.

I can't blame Rogan for cashing in on a trend, what seemed like a fringe nutter opinion the 80s (lizard people!!) has become more common (9/11 conspiracy, flat earthers) and then suddenly a mainstream minority view (anti-vax).

It's fucking terrifying.

DefaultM

A bit annoying to be honest because I own all their music but I haven't got a CD player anymore, so now I can't listen.

There's plenty of stuff hosted on Spotify that I don't agree with, all sorts of songs with absolute filth lyrics or misogynistic views that kids are listening to and could be damaging. I just don't listen to it and I don't let my kids, and if someone I knew listened to it I'd say "are you not bothered by *insert whatever*" and if they said no I'd just say okay.
They've got a platform and could do this without annoying their fans. Maybe they're trying to annoy people in to cancelling Spotify, but as above I'm not going to do that.

darthed1981

DefaultM said:

A bit annoying to be honest because I own all their music but I haven't got a CD player anymore, so now I can't listen.

I have found the £20 portable jobs on Amazon do the job for casual listening, a 3.5mm jack to RCA cable (or headphones) and you are away.  You can also use micro-usb for some of them, so no need for batteries.

randerson

One interesting point to note is  that both Joni Mitchell and NY suffered from polio as children, just a handful of years before the polio vaccine was rolled out. I'm not 100% sure what to make of that but it could partly explain their passion re. perceived vaccine disinformation.

dindude

Maybe they're trying to annoy people in to cancelling Spotify, but as above I'm not going to do that.

Thing is, there’s decent competition for Spotify and it’s so easy to change - if people are annoyed by it, not changing your streaming platform is ultra passive/lazy.

The whole discussion made me check out Apple Music free 3 months trial yesterday - I tried it when it first came out but was buggy as hell, I’ve always been a reluctant Spotify user. Apple Music is now as slick as the rest, and what I wasn’t expecting was then in my CarPlay tethered connection it does sound a decent chunk better than Spotify. 

DefaultM

dindude said:

Maybe they're trying to annoy people in to cancelling Spotify, but as above I'm not going to do that.

Thing is, there’s decent competition for Spotify and it’s so easy to change - if people are annoyed by it, not changing your streaming platform is ultra passive/lazy.

The whole discussion made me check out Apple Music free 3 months trial yesterday - I tried it when it first came out but was buggy as hell, I’ve always been a reluctant Spotify user. Apple Music is now as slick as the rest, and what I wasn’t expecting was then in my CarPlay tethered connection it does sound a decent chunk better than Spotify. 

Yeah but Apple Music doesn't have Joe Rogan =P

Seriously though I've got a family subscription with 4 people using it each with their own playlists and favourited artists/albums etc. I can't make everyone migrate all that over just for 2 artists only I listen to.

Spotify has loads of guitar backing tracks as well, does Apple Music have those?

Evan

darthed1981 said:

Joe Rogan, who I've never listened to, is part of Spotify's strategy to "differentiate" themselves.

They in rather an awkward position as despite being first to market, they really offer nothing anyone else can't do, so Amazon, Apple, Google etc. have all done the same thing.  Spotify still seem to be way ahead with their playlists and interface, but that only lasts so long.

So podcasts, which unlike music can be exclusive to the platform are a way of doing that.  Most of the other tricks have been tried, Tidal with their "we pay Jay-Z and Beyonce more", cough sorry "we pay artists more..." and so on.  Google have integrated Youtube, which could be a winner.

Long story short, if a man in his 70s who is mostly listened to by the "I still buy CDs none of this new-fangled streaming nonsense" age bracket has a strop, they aren't going to change their whole strategy.

As for Rogan?  Everyone has been missing the point for years IMHO.  Our democracy survives because of two things: -

1.  American military hegemony.

2.  A fundamental trust in our government and institutions.

The first ending was bound to happen eventually, and in the long run spending trillions on defense but not having universal healthcare has always seemed eccentric, even before China made a comeback.

But... the fall of trust in governments and institutions, which can be blamed on the governments and institutions themselves (this stretches back to the second Iraq war BTW, Boris' parties are just the latest thing) but also social media, and the idea that anyone with a laptop, google and an unschooled opinion can potentially have a point as valid as a professor or professional... the list goes on.

I can't blame Rogan for cashing in on a trend, what seemed like a fringe nutter opinion the 80s (lizard people!!) has become more common (9/11 conspiracy, flat earthers) and then suddenly a mainstream minority view (anti-vax).

It's fucking terrifying.

I don’t think Rogan cashed in on a trend, he set the trend. His podcast started like every other podcast, in a very small way and became massive because he was providing a service the mainstream wasn’t. I really don’t understand the moral panic about the idea that he sits down and has long form conversations with all sorts of different people, with all sorts of different opinions. Some of them might be what you’d call conspiracy theorists, but most of them are just interesting people. Oliver Stone, Tarantino, people of the left, people of the right, Dave Chappelle, Bill Burr. I saw him talking at length with Edward Snowden the other day - where else can you see that? I don’t see what makes that dangerous. I’m old enough to remember Mary Whitehouse and the moral majority and her conviction that if people were allowed to see tv programmes and films with explicit sex and violence, then everyone would suddenly become sex fiends and violent thugs. That theory was disproved long ago. 

People acquire “schooled” opinions by being exposed to more opinions, not by Chinese style censorship. 

Evan

Philtre said:

They can have cancerous vomit from a right-wing nut job or Young. Not both.

Sounds reasonable to me...

Now that’s what I call an uninformed opinion.

Evan

thecolourbox said:

Evan said:

thecolourbox said:

Just a quick thought - are those accusing Young and Mitchell of trying to censor things, actually also censoring Young and Mitchell in the process by telling them to shut up?

No.

Ok cool.

And when he says "Spotify can have Rogan or Young and not both", does that not just signify him saying "remove me" rather than "remove him"? He can't reasonably have assumed that a platform aimed at young people would bow to a 76 year old, so he's clearly just making his statement and moving away from the platform? Or is that too simplistic?

No, I think he wants Rogan booted off. Also, you’ve got Joni Mitchell and others now. The left hate Rogan - not because he’s right wing - he’s definitely not, but because he constantly points out the sheer nuttiness of the woke and points out their hypocrisy and authoritarian tendencies.