Old Black

WezV

Im finally getting ro make one.

The aim here will be to get as close as possible to this


It started as a 52/53  les paul and his been through many changes.  Im going to try and recreate as much as possible.

The starting point is this rather nice shiny MIJ tokai.


It will get fully stripped back to wood.   Converted to 53 specs with P90's, then taken through all the NY mods.

The headstock will have a binding ridge without binding added, and a Gibson style crown inlay.  Body will get the P90 routes, mini switch added, bigsbsy.

The whole rear will get the stripe and metal plates.

It will be refinised in Black nitro and heavily aged.

rze99

That is one heck of a project. Good luck!!

chrisj1602

Can’t wait to see this…

stickyfiddle

..Dibs maybe??  

WezV

stickyfiddle said:

..Dibs maybe??  

This one has a home

Funkfingers

Gibson now offers an Old Black replica at a price that is taking me Out Of My Mind. 

WezV

This will be far more accurate.

stickyfiddle

WezV said:

stickyfiddle said:

..Dibs maybe??  

This one has a home

BAH!!! That's ok - i'm sure it'll make the eventual owner VERY happy!

Winny_Pooh

Mega cool project, looking forward to this. Relic work is going to take aaaages! 
Ragged Glory

WezV

The relic work is the easy bit.   

That back stripe is the bit i need to think about a lot before i take tools to wood.   A few ways i could go with it.

I'm also trying to decide how much of a gold top to make it before it becomes old black.  The more i look at it the more I think it needs some remnants of aged bronze powder goldtop under that black.

SRich

Absolutely in to see updates on this

ICBM

The back stripe always makes me think the whole thing was bandsawed in half up the middle then glued back together .

What’s under the extra round cover plate? I forget… I did know at one time.

WezV

note that the back stripe inlay is missing on 3/4 of the body, and the remaining channel gets narrower towards the neck.

The neck has certainly had a lot of work early in it's life.  The crown inlay suggests it went back to Gibson for a repair in the early 60's. Really it's all a mystery as it happened so early in the guitars life, much of it before it was given to Young

the back plate suggests it had a switch added  behind the bridge.  It is the same size as the toggle switch cover.  This also suggests it went through a few bridge changes early in its life too.  it looks like it may have had a stop bar tailpiece at some point between its early 50's bridge and Bigsby periods. 

this is apparently 69


 The pickup change is well documented.  Interestingly you can see something going on under the B3, and the mini switch by controls has not been added.  It's also very shiny and reflecting the trem/bridge

paulnb57

What an interesting project, the research looks as much fun as replicating it. Looks like quite a project, but based on what youve already done, it will be a cracker!
Following this joker….
I wonder if the switch behind the bridge was the bypass all controls switch, which was then located between the pots when the Bigsby was fitted?.,Or perhaps its is the switch under the B3 that looks awkward to access and perhaps relocated

WezV

There is a pretty good conversion here which may interest those waiting to see how i go about it.

https://ap-luthier.com/AP-Luthier/OldBlackI.htm

lovestrat74

Very cool project. Out of interest why did you go down the Tokai route as opposed to building from scratch?

WezV

I am not planning on making any more LP's. I want to focus on the hollowbody stuff and some of my own designs.

I am still taking on the occasional refinish/relic job, so this falls into that category

WezV

The first hurdle introduced by the Tokai choice is obviously removing the finish.  I did check a few thinners/strippers to see if anything would touch it, but as expected no joy.

the black actually peels off rather easy once you find an edge to go at, leaving the sealer coat underneath 

I am down to the sealer coat on top, through to the wood on a few patches near the waist on the bass side


I have to say, Tokai did a really good job on this finish on this, definitely not a thick gloopy finish.   It is a relatively thin coat of sealer that should sand away relatively quickly.  The black/clear coats were pretty thin too

Winny_Pooh

WezV said:

There is a pretty good conversion here which may interest those waiting to see how i go about it.

https://ap-luthier.com/AP-Luthier/OldBlackI.htm

Cool project. A few things bounced around my head reading that:

Neck centre strip; what a massive pain in the arse, could only be justified in the event of a terrible crack with the rod pushing through.

Binding with nibs, how could/do Gibson waste man hours on so something so pointless

The welded on copper bigsby tip! 

Aluminium plates and hardware look pretty cool on a black guitar.

Daniel Lanois has his own old black style guitar modelled after Young's:



Dan is a cunning guy, he also kinda stole edge's AC30 delay rig tricks for his own use hahaha

Funkfingers

Not sure about that. Edge only begins using that layered ambience on The Unforgettable Fire, co-produced by …

Back on topic.

One original 1952/53 spec detail that you might prefer to dodge is the neck pitch angle associated with the trapeze "wrap under" tailpiece!

WezV

just done a little test with an aftermarket metal P-90 cover to see if that gets us close.  I've added a little physical wear, nothing chemical yet.