Old Black

WezV

Funkfingers said:

One original 1952/53 spec detail that you might prefer to dodge is the neck pitch angle associated with the trapeze "wrap under" tailpiece!

i certainly won't be doing a neck reset to recreate it

glt56

WezV said:

The first hurdle introduced by the Tokai choice is obviously removing the finish.  I did check a few thinners/strippers to see if anything would touch it, but as expected no joy.

the black actually peels off rather easy once you find an edge to go at, leaving the sealer coat underneath 

I am down to the sealer coat on top, through to the wood on a few patches near the waist on the bass side


I have to say, Tokai did a really good job on this finish on this, definitely not a thick gloopy finish.   It is a relatively thin coat of sealer that should sand away relatively quickly.  The black/clear coats were pretty thin too

 

Sorry Wes, I've changed my mind!  


(ooooooh... can't wait!!!!)  

glt56

WezV said:

note that the back stripe inlay is missing on 3/4 of the body, and the remaining channel gets narrower towards the neck.

The neck has certainly had a lot of work early in it's life.  The crown inlay suggests it went back to Gibson for a repair in the early 60's. Really it's all a mystery as it happened so early in the guitars life, much of it before it was given to Young

the back plate suggests it had a switch added  behind the bridge.  It is the same size as the toggle switch cover.  This also suggests it went through a few bridge changes early in its life too.  it looks like it may have had a stop bar tailpiece at some point between its early 50's bridge and Bigsby periods. 

this is apparently 69


 The pickup change is well documented.  Interestingly you can see something going on under the B3, and the mini switch by controls has not been added.  It's also very shiny and reflecting the mic stand

Is that a Dynasonic in the bridge position?

WezV

glt56 said:

Sorry Wes, I've changed my mind!  

Either way, its getting some black paint  

glt56 said: Is that a Dynasonic in the bridge position? Yeah.  apparently it was too noisy, went in for repair.  The firebird pickup was a  "temporary" replacement

glt56

WezV said:

glt56 said:

Sorry Wes, I've changed my mind!  

Either way, its getting some black paint  
It looks a bit Mick Ronson-y?
glt56 said:

Is that a Dynasonic in the bridge position?

Yeah.  apparently it was too noisy, went in for repair.  The firebird pickup was a  "temporary" replacement - Wow did not know that!

impmann

I'm probably the only person alive who can't stand Neil Young's music (although I love CSN) and really want to like it... but just can't get past the awful vocals and his overlong (often out of tune) solos, often with a guitar tone could improved massively by turning the volume down a *touch* to get rid of the farty flub.

I'm probably the only person that looks at his Les Paul and thinks it would look so much better if it was restored to being a goldtop and without the awful chrome plate bits... and the bigsby goes in the bin.

The above said, good luck with the project, I'm sure you'll utterly nail it. :-)

SRich

Can’t find the ‘Heresy’ button……

It is however a broad church here.

WezV

it is going to be extreme.  Not everyone will need to like it.  

Anyway.  I'm doing a few bits of hardware whilst on lunch.

Shiny new Bigsby


The black paint needs removing, this can be done with paint stripper or thinners.  Bigsby seem to pour it in pretty thick so it can take a while to get it all out, this had another pass after this stage 


Then the metal needs some age.  I'm only doing the aluminium bits today.  Rollers and arms will be done at a later stage, They all need different treatments


Aluminium will oxidise with household bleach.   That gets us here.

roberty

Ooh I might want to do this to a B7 soon. Looks great man

Funkfingers

impmann said:

a guitar tone could improved massively by turning the volume down a *touch* to get rid of the farty flub.

Hey, hey. My, my. That farty flub is the sound of toob rectifier sag. 

I confess that I would love to find a digital amp modeller preset named Farty Flub.

Ddigger

There is a lot of work to do to covert the Tokai, but one small consolation is that you will never have to intonate or tune it...!





Love NY btw.

springhead

Funkfingers said:

impmann said:

a guitar tone could improved massively by turning the volume down a *touch* to get rid of the farty flub.

Hey, hey. My, my. That farty flub is the sound of toob rectifier sag. 

And the phase splitter having the snot beaten out of it.  

WezV

i have the black peeled off the rest of it, still the sealer coat to go through which will be sanded at some point in the next few days to take it back to raw clean wood. 

nice 2 piece mahogany back... The join is not obvious

PhilKing

Let me know if there are any bits you need.  I think I have some old Schaller machines around.

WezV

Ooh, if you have some with a bit of natural play ageing that could be perfect.

WezV

next bit may be pic heavy and rather speculative. It's as much for my own reference as anything else.

I will be recreating this from a few dodgy photo's.  there is a risk when doing this.  you can focus on one bit of a picture, spend ages recreating it, then realize it's just a reflection. 

On the link i posted the guy went to the trouble of welding a bit of brass onto the end of the trem arm because it looks brassy in the reference pic right on the tip


But can you see it in any of the other pics or is it just a reflection?





So i will be working through a few areas here trying to pin down how i want to approach it.

A few things i am unsure of:
How much of the original finish remains under the black?  Was it stripped, or simply over sprayed?
Is the bridge pickup Nickel or gold? I won't be going gold, but many replicas do so i want to at least understand why.
What exactly is going on under that Bigsby?  Is Neil just a dirty bugger leaving years of grime, or is it something else to do with the possible switch hole
What to do with the headstock?  This is one area we won't copy every detail as it won't say Gibson, but it can't look out of place or what is the point.


Finish.
The back is easy.  Its clearly an overspray.  You can see a natural colour that is right for an early 50's LP and you can see raw wood on the neck.  This tells me i definitely need to shoot a few coats of amber before adding black. 

I'm still unsure how  much gold remains under the top
First pic - dirty maple, hint of gold round the edges, but we also know some mahogany on the back looks white from the same set of pics

but is this one showing dirty maple o rgold?


Pickups:
Main pic looks like nickel

but possibly gold or aged nickel



Headstock:
It has had the ridge for a while, this is an early pic

You can see it has a holly veneer, crown inlay already overpainted badly, but not too worn yet.

More recently

WezV

Bigsby.  
The reference pic show a difference in the texture of finish udner the strings,  and some marks that could all just be dirt and grime


here is an early pic of it, still some marks there


More recently


looks like a plugged hole, but it's off center and a bit far back?

This one may actually show a hole right under the string bar, as well as the plugged hole we can see in the other pics


If anyone has any ideas what is going on between the two bigsby bars, i'm all ears.  At first i thought he had a piece of foam there, but i'm not sure.  Possibly just grime, but very consistent between pics.

WezV

lastly , the plate:

I assume we are seeing 3 layers here.  Brass underneath, then nickel, then chrome.  I'm not sue how I can replicate this yet, but i will figure out something

Zoolooter

impmann said:

I'm probably the only person alive who can't stand Neil Young's music (although I love CSN) and really want to like it... but just can't get past the awful vocals and his overlong (often out of tune) solos, often with a guitar tone could improved massively by turning the volume down a *touch* to get rid of the farty flub.

I'm probably the only person that looks at his Les Paul and thinks it would look so much better if it was restored to being a goldtop and without the awful chrome plate bits... and the bigsby goes in the bin.

The above said, good luck with the project, I'm sure you'll utterly nail it. :-)

You are not alone! I’ve tried over the years many times but the vocals and music just grate. There’s couple of obvious favourites that I enjoy, but that’s it.

stickyfiddle

@WezV on the brass bigbsy question that looks 100% like it just catching the light to me (speaking more in terms of how my photographer-brain sees it). Bigsby arms are slightly bent at that point so it's completely natural for it too look different to the main length of the arm in a photo