Alan Henning dead

VimFuego

explained what? why you are saying random and irrelevant things? No, you didn't.

chillidoggy

Is this the right room for a pointless argument?

viz

.

VimFuego

nope, neither is this is the right room for making random and pointless comments that don't help the conversation whatsoever but that didn't stop you.

Phil_aka_Pip

chillidoggy said:

VimFuego said:

so why bring it up?

Only in as much as if everyone was a Muslim, the problem might cease. i.e. There'd be no point in beheading any more. You thinking of a conversion, then?

The bloke they beheaded was converting to Islam. He worshipped in a mosque in Manchester.

Being a moslem hasn't helped the Shites, IS are Sunnis. They're killing each other.

chillidoggy

VimFuego said:

nope, neither is this is the right room for making random and pointless comments that don't help the conversation whatsoever but that didn't stop you.

Hey-ho. The forum police are out again. 

VimFuego

chillidoggy said:

VimFuego said:

nope, neither is this is the right room for making random and pointless comments that don't help the conversation whatsoever but that didn't stop you.

Hey-ho. The forum police are out again. 

not at all, I'm not stopping you posting, I'm questioning you about what you said.

chillidoggy

Well, you carry on in you're own sweet way, then. And I'll carry on in mine.

Grunfeld

John_P said:

I travellled a lot in my 20's and genuinely felt more welcomed by strangers abroad than when I've travelled the UK but I wouldn't stereotype and generalise to judge anyone from that, just an observation.  

Likewise, when I was 18-19 I went off around the Middle East and North Africa for a year and the hospitality and friendliness I was shown was astonishing.  Muslim countries, all of them. 

I remember getting lost just north of Sudan and I met a guy who helped me.  He was about my age and he wanted to show me around, we got on really well and I ended up staying with him and his family for a few days.  We got couple of bikes and rode around, I met his friends, his family fed me, I had a great time.  In return, I dunno, I was just me, I helped them with their English, and it all seemed normal.  At the time I took it in my stride but now... I just can't imagine meeting someone at Euston Station and saying, "Hey, let's hang out, and come back and stay if you want to."  No strings attached whatsoever... just friendliness. 

People are great.  People are great in that part of the world too  It is so sad all this shit happens.

VimFuego

sounds good to me.

ThorpyFX

As abhorrent as this is, and it is truly abhorrent. We need to stay away from this, we have no good form in that region, we don't understand the dynamics and even if we do, we try and force a western solution on an Arabic problem. All of the gulf states have enough military hardwear, manpower and money to defeat ISIS, and yet they are choosing to do very little. It is the gulf states who should put boots on the ground. They can do things to Isis that we won't have the stomach for. If we get involved, it will seem like Christians vs Muslims and what this world does not need is another religious war. It breeds nutcases on both sides

ICBM

Wisdoms for thorpy6 and others who have said similar things.

This is not our war. We can only make things worse, and "IS" actively want us to intervene - that's why they are so publicly brutally murdering Western citizens. They are not killing hostages to try to stop us carrying out military action or punish us for doing do, they are doing it to provoke us into getting into another unwinnable war. That's what they want. We need the strength not to be provoked into a knee-jerk response. Why our politicians cannot see this is beyond me. (Some can, but they are not respected or listened to.)

If we want to help stop it, we need to talk to the stable regimes in the region and give them whatever support they want - that includes the far from perfect ones we don't like, but if we could accept that imposing Western values on cultures we do not understand is not the solution or even possible, and that peace and security is better than "freedom" or "democracy" for most people, it would be a good start.

There is not a single example of a Western military intervention in the Middle East which has ever done any good or had the intended result. That includes the liberation of Kuwait which was probably the closest to a success, but the failure to follow it up led eventually to where we are now.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

Forge

What I find disturbing is the association of Islam with IS in people's mind. IS do not represent the values of Islam and are rejected by their own community. They are led by a delusional old man riddled with fears and greed for power. The middle east need to intervene and destroy them, any other (Western) way will breed fanatics. The person they just murdered was ten times the man they will ever be: kind, generous and altruistic. It takes a brainless cunt to pull a trigger, it takes a man to give up a job, leave a family and go help people of a different culture in a warzone.

Bogwhoppit

Typed up plenty of comment...

 

..cant be arsed. Let Ebola do its thing.

ThorpyFX

I feel this is a very worthwhile quote here: I know its batman but it fits: "some men just want to watch the world burn"

These uneducated, insecure thugs, need to be eliminated like the vermin they are. This is not our fight though, it will be the fight of the royal families in the gulf should they wish to survive. I am sure they will want to.....

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

OK then, so what's the solution to the problem?

Invest billions in the security services like MI5, MI6 and GCHQ, create new mobile combat units based around the SAS SBS, Paras and Marines that can go in hit and target and get out again and invest in advanced drones, cruise missiles and be prepared to spend the next 20 years in a long war. Isil and co will of course bomb us from within [think IRA] .. we're at war. Time to face up to the fact ..

Axe_meister

Why are we will in Iraq/Syria. Oil of course. If the liked of IS gain a big stronghold in the region the price of oil will go up major time. We spent a fortune trying to get a stable regime in Iraq so we can get their oil at a reasonable price.

Emp_Fab

Russell Brand has some very intelligent views on this that I wholeheartedly agree with...

Bucket

^ Fucking hell, has Russell Brand said something I agree entirely with?

thisisguitar

@Bucket @Emp_Fab - Totally agree too