New Fractal multifx thingybob

guitarfishbay

monquixote said:

Drew_fx said:

See, I actually think you WOULD play down t'Dog n t'Duck with this sort of thing. I mean... it really is just a Line 6 M13 on steroids, and they are the *exact* kinds of players who will want one. You see looooooaaaaaaddddssss of M13's and M9's on pro-boards, semi-pro boards, and amateur alike. They have universal appeal.

Yeah I'm completely with you on this. If I could afford it and it was easy to use I'd be all over it and I'm only doing pub covers.

I now have a couple of Strymons on my board so that's nearly half of the budget in two pedals, but I think it's all about how much time it takes to make it sound good. I want to be able to say "RAT" and a "Phase 90" and that's what I get I don't want to be defining the characteristics of the cliping diodes and the filering etc. 

There is a Rat model on the Axe and it seems ok.  I actually use it in one of my scenes as a mid gain tone - took me seconds to dial it in and IIRC that included going to the advanced page and altering the bass EQ.

I'll take some photos of the front screen tonight - like I said the Axe navigation system works in layers, and I'd assume the FX8 will too.  First layer in a lot of cases corresponds either with the real pedal (e.g. for many drives) or has the most likely controls you need.  In a lot of cases I think you could be happy with just the front page.

Worth pointing out is that there are 4 knobs on the Axe FX labelled ABCD, these reassign 'intelligently' in relationship to whatever the main dial is controlling.  So essentially you have 5 knobs to turn that directly correspond with the screen at all times.  Interestingly (or worryingly) I had no idea of this until I bought it.  I just assumed you used the big wheel and navigation cursors for everything. 

The reason it doesn't work for someone like Drew is that he has a very specific idea of what he wants - and when that does require going in to the advanced settings it can be a little bit of a rabbit hole.  

Heartfeltdawn

mellowsun said:

+1. Can't understand why no one has addressed this in the market yet. Another missed opportunity for Fractal, I think.

I find it strange how many guitarists fear tweaking a few knobs. The whole point behind digital emulations is that they allow you to tinker as much as possible. It allows the unit to be all things to all people. I doubt it will be as complex as some are claiming (and saying it's too difficult based on screenshots without any actual use is rather bizarre). If Fractal reduce the level of 'tweakability', then it stops being all things to all people because limits are set in how far you can sculpt a sound, and it would be ludicrous for Fractal to release 'FX-8: the idiot version' with much reduced tweakability. 

Now a £1200 effects box with limited knobs and tweakability... it's just stupid. Why would you want to have such a hamstrung box of tricks? It'd be a waste of the processing power, the algorithms, and the level of development put in.

I don't think they have misjudged it at all. It's not aimed at the mainstream market and they aren't going out to sell millions of these things. It's going for a very niche market indeed just as the Axe FX was and clearly Fractal have been successful going this route with the Axe FX. Why change that? It's certainly not a misjudgement in the manner of Line 6 with some of their releases over the last few years. 

Heartfeltdawn

Drew_fx said:

See, I actually think you WOULD play down t'Dog n t'Duck with this sort of thing. I mean... it really is just a Line 6 M13 on steroids, and they are the *exact* kinds of players who will want one. You see looooooaaaaaaddddssss of M13's and M9's on pro-boards, semi-pro boards, and amateur alike. They have universal appeal.

I think this has universal appeal, but it does not have universal friendliness to the wallet. In a world where even touring muso's are struggling to make cash, and where well known and reputable bands are struggling to pay the bills... the line between "professional" and "amateur" is constantly blurring.

I'd be putting money aside for one of these if they were £600 or £700. At £1200-£1300, it's a bigger ask. so I have to evaluate it on "what do I need from it?" and "what will it actually give me that I don't already have?" and the answer is "not that much" to both of them.

Absolutely. It's going to lead to some interesting decisions made by musicians. Spend cash on the guitar, the amp or the effects? It is a big slab of cash but I'd happily bet that Fractal will not struggle selling these. 

I'll still be here with a Peavey Bandit and an HM-2

Clarky

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

@Drew_fx are you getting the itch for a Herbert / VH4 with MIDI control via a G-System or FX8 [or similar] yet???

if I wasn't a multi-fx type user, that would be my rig without any doubt.. I reckon it'd sound mental too..

Nah mate. Actually right now I'm going in this direction:

Diezel D-Moll as my main amp, with three sounds. Kemper with some FX-loop profiles of the D-Moll, with certain settings to give me another two sounds. Output of my pedalboard into the Kemper. Kemper direct output (without any modelling on it) into the front of my Diezel D-Moll. Ground lift enabled to remove the noise. Kemper plugged into the FX loop of my Diezel D-Moll. Midi controller switching both the amp and the Kemper at the same time. Giving me access to the five sounds I traditionally used when my main amp was a Fryette Sig: X.

Clean (very clean)
Rhythm without boost (slightly on the edge break up clean)
Rhythm with boost (tight low-gain rhythms)
Lead without boost (tight chugga-chugga metal rhythms)
Lead with boost (my main high gain sound for rhythms and leads)

It also allows me to use the four FX slots on the Kemper as extra effects too. So it'll be:

Ernie Ball Volume
Dunlop 535Q
Phase 90
Line 6 M9
Boo Instruments 808 tubescreamer clone
DIY Midi controller with 5 footswitches (amp channel selector basically)
Diezel D-Moll or Kemper
Egnater Tourmaster

ah ok… so you're using the KPA to give you effectively channels 4 and 5 then?

Drew_TNBD

Clarky said:

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

@Drew_fx are you getting the itch for a Herbert / VH4 with MIDI control via a G-System or FX8 [or similar] yet???

if I wasn't a multi-fx type user, that would be my rig without any doubt.. I reckon it'd sound mental too..

Nah mate. Actually right now I'm going in this direction:

Diezel D-Moll as my main amp, with three sounds. Kemper with some FX-loop profiles of the D-Moll, with certain settings to give me another two sounds. Output of my pedalboard into the Kemper. Kemper direct output (without any modelling on it) into the front of my Diezel D-Moll. Ground lift enabled to remove the noise. Kemper plugged into the FX loop of my Diezel D-Moll. Midi controller switching both the amp and the Kemper at the same time. Giving me access to the five sounds I traditionally used when my main amp was a Fryette Sig: X.

Clean (very clean)
Rhythm without boost (slightly on the edge break up clean)
Rhythm with boost (tight low-gain rhythms)
Lead without boost (tight chugga-chugga metal rhythms)
Lead with boost (my main high gain sound for rhythms and leads)

It also allows me to use the four FX slots on the Kemper as extra effects too. So it'll be:

Ernie Ball Volume
Dunlop 535Q
Phase 90
Line 6 M9
Boo Instruments 808 tubescreamer clone
DIY Midi controller with 5 footswitches (amp channel selector basically)
Diezel D-Moll or Kemper
Egnater Tourmaster

ah ok… so you're using the KPA to give you effectively channels 4 and 5 then?

Correct!

musteatbrain

It might be amazing, but there's no way I'd spend over a grand on something I was going to stamp dogshit trainers on

Heartfeltdawn

musteatbrain said:

It might be amazing, but there's no way I'd spend over a grand on something I was going to stamp dogshit trainers on

This is why I have started my own company selling soft shoes purely for using when playing with pedals. No more terrible videos with yoru socks showing on Youtube! No more worry about getting spunk, sick, and shit into your true bypass switches!

www.stompshoes.co.uk

guitarfishbay

@monquixote @digitalscream @mellowsun

As I said I'd do, here are some pictures of the user interface on the Axe FX.  While I totally agree that pedals are the correct choice for a lot of people, I don't necessarily agree the Axe FX is overly complex - it just depends on what the user needs.

I have chosen to show the Drive, and the Phaser blocks as those two came up in conversation here.

As you can see the front page controls have most of what you need to in theory achieve a good tone - for the most part you'd only go to further pages if you wanted to, but it wouldn't be necessary all the time.  Personally I find that most of the time the front page does it for me - I only go in to the advanced parameters when I know what I'm looking for.  For example, on the delays, there is a graphic EQ page, where you can dial in high and low pass filters, along with bell/notch curves for the delay tone - being someone used to operating a DAW I quite like having the option to go and do this, but it isn't 100% necessary IMO.

Also note that whatever parameters you have highlighted is modified by using the main scroll wheel on the Axe.  You can also see the letters A, B, C, and D.  These correspond to the rotary knobs labelled ABCD on the front of the Axe.  If you select a different parameter to edit with the main wheel, ABCD will reassign themselves automatically.  So on a page with rotary knobs you always have access to up to 5 knobs to turn on the unit itself.  While it doesn't match the Kemper (or real pedals) for dedicated controls a lot of the time it works really well and means you can do a lot of knob turning as opposed to cursor navigating.

In all honesty I have no idea what the FX8 user interface will be like, but this might be useful anyway in forming an opinion of the Axe FX.

Here we go:

Drive Page one - this is basically all I need a lot of the time.  Mix defaults to full wet.

Page 2 - some advanced options.  TBH I don't touch them.

Page 3 contains more detailed EQ, I've used this on a scene where I use a Rat (not this patch) to give me a mid gain tone with a specific feel.

Page 4 - never used any of these options, they seem like the least common ones.

Phaser Page 1 - again to me this is most of what I'd need, and I was able to dial in a tone I liked fairly quickly just using this.

Page 2 Advanced has a scrolling menu, but has some pretty powerful parameters on it.

Second shot of page 2, not Start Freq was the bottom of the first shot, it isn't a full extra page of parameters here.

And Page 3 contains 'mix' 

Honestly, I think that might have been the first time I've voluntarily called up the phaser block!  Just goes to show what we need is all quite different... I really haven't done a lot of exploring on the FX side of things, I'm really getting in to the amps now.  Having figured suitable settings for my cabinet (more on that in the Si/Drew don't want Axe FXs thread) the amp modelling is feeling great right now and I'm really enjoying just playing.

Clarky

I find most fx-units pretty easy to mess with..

once you figure out how to use the user interface, they're mostly pretty similar

dunstanmus

This is a game changer for me. Small footprint. Top notch build quality. Currently selling my pedals to fund it. I joined the queue. Cheers Rich

Heartfeltdawn

dunstanmus said:

This is a game changer for me. Small footprint. Top notch build quality. Currently selling my pedals to fund it. I joined the queue. Cheers Rich

You do know it runs on PP3 batteries only? 

guitarfishbay

Heartfeltdawn said:

dunstanmus said:

This is a game changer for me. Small footprint. Top notch build quality. Currently selling my pedals to fund it. I joined the queue. Cheers Rich

You do know it runs on PP3 batteries only? 

Huh? It has a mains socket.

Clarky

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

@Drew_fx are you getting the itch for a Herbert / VH4 with MIDI control via a G-System or FX8 [or similar] yet???

if I wasn't a multi-fx type user, that would be my rig without any doubt.. I reckon it'd sound mental too..

Nah mate. Actually right now I'm going in this direction:

Diezel D-Moll as my main amp, with three sounds. Kemper with some FX-loop profiles of the D-Moll, with certain settings to give me another two sounds. Output of my pedalboard into the Kemper. Kemper direct output (without any modelling on it) into the front of my Diezel D-Moll. Ground lift enabled to remove the noise. Kemper plugged into the FX loop of my Diezel D-Moll. Midi controller switching both the amp and the Kemper at the same time. Giving me access to the five sounds I traditionally used when my main amp was a Fryette Sig: X.

Clean (very clean)
Rhythm without boost (slightly on the edge break up clean)
Rhythm with boost (tight low-gain rhythms)
Lead without boost (tight chugga-chugga metal rhythms)
Lead with boost (my main high gain sound for rhythms and leads)

It also allows me to use the four FX slots on the Kemper as extra effects too. So it'll be:

Ernie Ball Volume
Dunlop 535Q
Phase 90
Line 6 M9
Boo Instruments 808 tubescreamer clone
DIY Midi controller with 5 footswitches (amp channel selector basically)
Diezel D-Moll or Kemper
Egnater Tourmaster

ah ok… so you're using the KPA to give you effectively channels 4 and 5 then?

Correct!

if I understand the Diezel manuals correctly, it makes me think then that with a VH4 or Herbert plus a MIDI controller [like a nice FCB thingy] you'd essentially have a 128 channel amp with no modelling...

seriously... I need to stop thinking about this less my VH4 itch begins to bubble back up to the surface..

Drew_TNBD

Clarky said:

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

@Drew_fx are you getting the itch for a Herbert / VH4 with MIDI control via a G-System or FX8 [or similar] yet???

if I wasn't a multi-fx type user, that would be my rig without any doubt.. I reckon it'd sound mental too..

Nah mate. Actually right now I'm going in this direction:

Diezel D-Moll as my main amp, with three sounds. Kemper with some FX-loop profiles of the D-Moll, with certain settings to give me another two sounds. Output of my pedalboard into the Kemper. Kemper direct output (without any modelling on it) into the front of my Diezel D-Moll. Ground lift enabled to remove the noise. Kemper plugged into the FX loop of my Diezel D-Moll. Midi controller switching both the amp and the Kemper at the same time. Giving me access to the five sounds I traditionally used when my main amp was a Fryette Sig: X.

Clean (very clean)
Rhythm without boost (slightly on the edge break up clean)
Rhythm with boost (tight low-gain rhythms)
Lead without boost (tight chugga-chugga metal rhythms)
Lead with boost (my main high gain sound for rhythms and leads)

It also allows me to use the four FX slots on the Kemper as extra effects too. So it'll be:

Ernie Ball Volume
Dunlop 535Q
Phase 90
Line 6 M9
Boo Instruments 808 tubescreamer clone
DIY Midi controller with 5 footswitches (amp channel selector basically)
Diezel D-Moll or Kemper
Egnater Tourmaster

ah ok… so you're using the KPA to give you effectively channels 4 and 5 then?

Correct!

if I understand the Diezel manuals correctly, it makes me think then that with a VH4 or Herbert plus a MIDI controller [like a nice FCB thingy] you'd essentially have a 128 channel amp with no modelling...

seriously... I need to stop thinking about this less my VH4 itch begins to bubble back up to the surface..

Well you can't turn any of the knobs on these amps, so it's not really 128 channels. All it really does it switch between your 4 channels, and can activate the master volume selector and FX loop. AFAIK. If you're telling me you can turn the knobs of the VH4 using midi CC's, then I'm selling everything and buying one lol.

monquixote

I think the only amp that does that is the H&K GrandMeister.

digitalscream

monquixote said:

I think the only amp that does that is the H&K GrandMeister.

...and the Switchblade and Coreblade.

Let's not forget the Jet City FLEX amps, when they finally get them sorted.

monquixote

Is the opinion that things like the Core Blade etc are not very good?

You would think that would be the perfect solution for someone who needs lots of channels.

Drew_TNBD

digitalscream said:

...and the Switchblade and Coreblade.

Never played either of them though. They any good?

digitalscream

Drew_fx said:

digitalscream said:

...and the Switchblade and Coreblade.

Never played either of them though. They any good?

I found them a bit characterless. The Coreblade's better than the Switchblade, though; I'd say it's worth at least trying, if you can find one.

Clarky

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

@Drew_fx are you getting the itch for a Herbert / VH4 with MIDI control via a G-System or FX8 [or similar] yet???

if I wasn't a multi-fx type user, that would be my rig without any doubt.. I reckon it'd sound mental too..

Nah mate. Actually right now I'm going in this direction:

Diezel D-Moll as my main amp, with three sounds. Kemper with some FX-loop profiles of the D-Moll, with certain settings to give me another two sounds. Output of my pedalboard into the Kemper. Kemper direct output (without any modelling on it) into the front of my Diezel D-Moll. Ground lift enabled to remove the noise. Kemper plugged into the FX loop of my Diezel D-Moll. Midi controller switching both the amp and the Kemper at the same time. Giving me access to the five sounds I traditionally used when my main amp was a Fryette Sig: X.

Clean (very clean)
Rhythm without boost (slightly on the edge break up clean)
Rhythm with boost (tight low-gain rhythms)
Lead without boost (tight chugga-chugga metal rhythms)
Lead with boost (my main high gain sound for rhythms and leads)

It also allows me to use the four FX slots on the Kemper as extra effects too. So it'll be:

Ernie Ball Volume
Dunlop 535Q
Phase 90
Line 6 M9
Boo Instruments 808 tubescreamer clone
DIY Midi controller with 5 footswitches (amp channel selector basically)
Diezel D-Moll or Kemper
Egnater Tourmaster

ah ok… so you're using the KPA to give you effectively channels 4 and 5 then?

Correct!

if I understand the Diezel manuals correctly, it makes me think then that with a VH4 or Herbert plus a MIDI controller [like a nice FCB thingy] you'd essentially have a 128 channel amp with no modelling...

seriously... I need to stop thinking about this less my VH4 itch begins to bubble back up to the surface..

Well you can't turn any of the knobs on these amps, so it's not really 128 channels. All it really does it switch between your 4 channels, and can activate the master volume selector and FX loop. AFAIK. If you're telling me you can turn the knobs of the VH4 using midi CC's, then I'm selling everything and buying one lol.

from the manual:

6.1 Programming the HerbertIt is quite easy to program your Diezel Herbert and, also, easy to explain. Pushing the "Store" toggle switch twice must follow each change in the MIDI program. After the first click, the selected blue LED lights will blink. Click on the switch again and your program is in memory. Each of the 128 programs (patches, program changes) can be changed as often as is desired.  the VH4 manual says the same thing.. ok so the HV4 is a 4-chan and the Herbert a 3-chan.. but if I'm understanding this right such that hitting "store" takes a snap-shot of the front panel and saves it, then you essenially have 128 channels yes?? note to author: I have an Axe-II.. it's the right preamp for me.. it's little, light and has all the control I need.. plus it's my reamping solution.. I absolutely must resist being seduced by a VH4 and a Herbert...