New Fractal multifx thingybob

guitarfishbay

Drew_fx said:

digitalscream said:

Drew_fx said:

Also, I would add... if it's Strymon you're comparing too... well the Axe's reverbs and delays and modulations can certainly get into that territory... but it takes a lot of work. It's not as easy to just turn a knob and get that lush reverb that you can with the Big Sky.

Perhaps this is what Fractal gear is missing - what's called "sensible defaults" and "opinionated frameworks" in the programming world. When you have something that's so complex and capable of incredibly deep editing, you need to have defaults which are suitable for the vast majority of people if you're going to be popular. I haven't come across anyone with an AxeFX who hasn't told me they spend hours/days/weeks tweaking just to get their sounds right...to me, that's just not cricket. It just tells me that the defaults aren't sensible enough.

Aye, I agree. I think a lot of the time they're just what Cliff likes, or they're just the halfway point. The speaker resonance is cranked really high in all of the amp  models on the Axe FX for instance, which often makes the low-end sound mushy and unrefined. The first thing I end up tweaking with any amp.

You'd think they'd let you save your own defaults.... but no...

Can you not do this for FX using global blocks?

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/49554-wicked-wiki-14-global-blocks.html

"Each effect block lets you save settings in up to 10 Global Block slots. That makes 10 “favorite settings” slots for each effect block. So you can have 10 stored versions of a Phaser per preset, 10 stored versions of a Compressor etc. And that’s per block/instance, so you have another 10 for Phaser 2, Compressor 2 etc.

Global blocks allow shared sound settings across multiple presets. Advantages:

• You can easily recall those favorite settings in other presets, which goes beyond the Recall Effect functionality.
• When adjusting the settings of a global block, those changes are applied automatically to the same global block in other presets too. Handy and time-saving!"

guitarfishbay

Also FWIW I agree regarding the presets for the amps, but I don't actually agree amount of 5-6 and Q of 2 is necessarily OTT, if you have the right frequency for the cab (based on real cab observations, not IR).

I double checked the settings on the clips I sent you - Dual Rec had amount of about 7.5 and 5153 had 9!  Again I was going off that incorrect post that said it could be 7-9 based on theoretical calculations.  Now I've got it about 6, and it honestly sounds good through my real cab (Q is about 3).  I've not played much through IRs this week to see if narrower Q with the default high amount is actually a better idea than less amount and wider Q (which is what I've been doing).

Playing through a real cab these speaker tab settings seem very important for how a lot of controls function. Master volume, bass, and resonance all seem really sensitive to the speaker tab LF settings - at correct settings things feel a lot more realistic, at incorrect settings you seem to get flub or a thinner tone depending on which side of wrong you are.  I honestly think tweaking the speaker tab is crucial for use with a SS power amp.  If you had a valve power amp this would all be done automatically.

This would lead me to assume anyone doing a lot of cab sharing would be best off with a valve power amp.

ICBM

ThePrettyDamned said:

ICBM said:

The Fender Cyber Twin definitely has physically turning automated knobs.

The t rex spin doctor does this.

No idea how it sounds but it's really really cool.

That's what I first thought when I saw it on the Cyber Twin .

Unfortunately my second thought was to wonder how much it would cost to repair if one - or worse, more than one! - got broken. They're in a rather exposed position on the front of the amp, and it would be quite easy to bash a few of them.

guitarfishbay

digitalscream said:

Drew_fx said:

Also, I would add... if it's Strymon you're comparing too... well the Axe's reverbs and delays and modulations can certainly get into that territory... but it takes a lot of work. It's not as easy to just turn a knob and get that lush reverb that you can with the Big Sky.

Perhaps this is what Fractal gear is missing - what's called "sensible defaults" and "opinionated frameworks" in the programming world. When you have something that's so complex and capable of incredibly deep editing, you need to have defaults which are suitable for the vast majority of people if you're going to be popular. I haven't come across anyone with an AxeFX who hasn't told me they spend hours/days/weeks tweaking just to get their sounds right...to me, that's just not cricket. It just tells me that the defaults aren't sensible enough.

I disagree - I can set up sounds very quickly.  Maybe I'm not using as many advanced features as someone like Drew would, but I can dial an amp in pretty quickly, and the FX I use really don't take me long to dial in either.

On the amps I use:

Page 1 Gain, Bass, Mid, Treble, (the only first page advanced button I might try is the bright switch)

Page 2 Presence, Depth (resonance) Master volume (I think it is on P2) - I usually try lower values for modern tones, and this is one of the first controls I use.  I balance this with the output knob.

The only other page I use is the speaker tab, and I use the same settings each time through my amp.

So really, the only things I do differently to a real amp are set the speaker tab (and defaults/global settings would be massively appreciated) and try the bright switch.  You'd have to balance the channel volume with master volume on the amps I like anyway.

EQ and gain usually default to halfway - the only defaults I might disagree with are Master (fairly often) presence and resonance (but how could they get these correct given how many different IRs/Cabs people are going to use).  I'm happy with EQ and gain defaulting to halfway, even if I know on some amps I'm going to end up with quite different settings.

I don't see the point in getting bogged down in extra EQs and advanced paramaters to begin with.  There are a huge number of amp models in the Axe.  You might as well try using the basic controls on each til you find one that works.  In fact I don't really like the bass cut switch at all, I find it too drastic for my tastes on most amps.

If anything I find it harder to get tones with an IR correct.  I do wind up playing with lots of different speaker tab settings, and I find myself using the CF comp a bit to try and get the feel right.

I actually think that the best solution is to just take IR captures of my cab and just use those, along with the speaker tab settings I'd use through a power amp.  This should yield pretty consistent results.  

This is more advanced than most would do (and I've not done it yet, just used results from someone else).

But what you do to find the correct LF settings is this impedance measurement - http://www.roomeqwizard.com/wizardhelpv5/help_en-GB/html/impedancemeasurement.html#top

And then you use Cliff's formula in this thread (in some paragraphs near the end of the first post) http://forum.fractalaudio.com/cliffs-notes/78003-about-speaker-lf-resonance.html

Nowhere near as user friendly as the Kemper if you want more 'correct' response from the amp, doesn't mean you can't get sounds you like without knowing this stuff.  I'd wager the vast majority of Axe FX users do not know the impedance measurement of their real cab, and annoyingly nobody posts the measurements of the cabs they shoot IRs from.  It is a missed opportunity, but people could choose to do it going forward and it would improve the user experience on the Axe

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

digitalscream said:

Drew_fx said:

Also, I would add... if it's Strymon you're comparing too... well the Axe's reverbs and delays and modulations can certainly get into that territory... but it takes a lot of work. It's not as easy to just turn a knob and get that lush reverb that you can with the Big Sky.

Perhaps this is what Fractal gear is missing - what's called "sensible defaults" and "opinionated frameworks" in the programming world. When you have something that's so complex and capable of incredibly deep editing, you need to have defaults which are suitable for the vast majority of people if you're going to be popular. I haven't come across anyone with an AxeFX who hasn't told me they spend hours/days/weeks tweaking just to get their sounds right...to me, that's just not cricket. It just tells me that the defaults aren't sensible enough.

I disagree - I can set up sounds very quickly.  Maybe I'm not using as many advanced features as someone like Drew would, but I can dial an amp in pretty quickly, and the FX I use really don't take me long to dial in either.

On the amps I use:

Page 1 Gain, Bass, Mid, Treble, (the only first page advanced button I might try is the bright switch)

Page 2 Presence, Depth (resonance) Master volume (I think it is on P2) - I usually try lower values for modern tones, and this is one of the first controls I use.  I balance this with the output knob.

The only other page I use is the speaker tab, and I use the same settings each time through my amp.

So really, the only things I do differently to a real amp are set the speaker tab (and defaults/global settings would be massively appreciated) and try the bright switch.  You'd have to balance the channel volume with master volume on the amps I like anyway.

EQ and gain usually default to halfway - the only defaults I might disagree with are Master (fairly often) presence and resonance (but how could they get these correct given how many different IRs/Cabs people are going to use).  I'm happy with EQ and gain defaulting to halfway, even if I know on some amps I'm going to end up with quite different settings.

I don't see the point in getting bogged down in extra EQs and advanced paramaters to begin with.  There are a huge number of amp models in the Axe.  You might as well try using the basic controls on each til you find one that works.  In fact I don't really like the bass cut switch at all, I find it too drastic for my tastes on most amps.

If anything I find it harder to get tones with an IR correct.  I do wind up playing with lots of different speaker tab settings, and I find myself using the CF comp a bit to try and get the feel right.

I actually think that the best solution is to just take IR captures of my cab and just use those, along with the speaker tab settings I'd use through a power amp.  This should yield pretty consistent results.  

This is more advanced than most would do (and I've not done it yet, just used results from someone else).

But what you do to find the correct LF settings is this impedance measurement - http://www.roomeqwizard.com/wizardhelpv5/help_en-GB/html/impedancemeasurement.html#top

And then you use Cliff's formula in this thread (in some paragraphs near the end of the first post) http://forum.fractalaudio.com/cliffs-notes/78003-about-speaker-lf-resonance.html

Nowhere near as user friendly as the Kemper if you want more 'correct' response from the amp, doesn't mean you can't get sounds you like without knowing this stuff.  I'd wager the vast majority of Axe FX users do not know the impedance measurement of their real cab, and annoyingly nobody posts the measurements of the cabs they shoot IRs from.  It is a missed opportunity, but people could choose to do it going forward and it would improve the user experience on the Axe

With the Kemper I just turn the gain knob.
>:D<

(okay, okay... not trying to turn this into a battle!)

Drew_TNBD

Like... on a Strymon BigSky for instance, if you turn up the time parameter, outwardly to the user it's just 'time' but under the hood, in all likelyness, each algorithm has the time parameter plumbed into decay parameters, tone related parameters, and other minutae that make those pedals a joy to use. I know that's how it works when we design our VSTplugins anyway.

digitalscream

Drew_fx said:

Like... on a Strymon BigSky for instance, if you turn up the time parameter, outwardly to the user it's just 'time' but under the hood, in all likelyness, each algorithm has the time parameter plumbed into decay parameters, tone related parameters, and other minutae that make those pedals a joy to use. I know that's how it works when we design our VSTplugins anyway.

Yes - that's exactly what I mean! In the real world, with real pedals/amps, none of the parameters change in isolation because (generally speaking) they're all completely inter-related. Being able to adjust independently is cool, and sometimes useful, but more often than not it's actually the last thing you want. Having to remember formulae and which parameters go with which others is a pain in the ass...if I've spent a lot of money on gear, I want it to do all that shit for me

guitarfishbay

Drew_fx said:

guitarfishbay said:

digitalscream said:

Drew_fx said:

Also, I would add... if it's Strymon you're comparing too... well the Axe's reverbs and delays and modulations can certainly get into that territory... but it takes a lot of work. It's not as easy to just turn a knob and get that lush reverb that you can with the Big Sky.

Perhaps this is what Fractal gear is missing - what's called "sensible defaults" and "opinionated frameworks" in the programming world. When you have something that's so complex and capable of incredibly deep editing, you need to have defaults which are suitable for the vast majority of people if you're going to be popular. I haven't come across anyone with an AxeFX who hasn't told me they spend hours/days/weeks tweaking just to get their sounds right...to me, that's just not cricket. It just tells me that the defaults aren't sensible enough.

I disagree - I can set up sounds very quickly.  Maybe I'm not using as many advanced features as someone like Drew would, but I can dial an amp in pretty quickly, and the FX I use really don't take me long to dial in either.

On the amps I use:

Page 1 Gain, Bass, Mid, Treble, (the only first page advanced button I might try is the bright switch)

Page 2 Presence, Depth (resonance) Master volume (I think it is on P2) - I usually try lower values for modern tones, and this is one of the first controls I use.  I balance this with the output knob.

The only other page I use is the speaker tab, and I use the same settings each time through my amp.

So really, the only things I do differently to a real amp are set the speaker tab (and defaults/global settings would be massively appreciated) and try the bright switch.  You'd have to balance the channel volume with master volume on the amps I like anyway.

EQ and gain usually default to halfway - the only defaults I might disagree with are Master (fairly often) presence and resonance (but how could they get these correct given how many different IRs/Cabs people are going to use).  I'm happy with EQ and gain defaulting to halfway, even if I know on some amps I'm going to end up with quite different settings.

I don't see the point in getting bogged down in extra EQs and advanced paramaters to begin with.  There are a huge number of amp models in the Axe.  You might as well try using the basic controls on each til you find one that works.  In fact I don't really like the bass cut switch at all, I find it too drastic for my tastes on most amps.

If anything I find it harder to get tones with an IR correct.  I do wind up playing with lots of different speaker tab settings, and I find myself using the CF comp a bit to try and get the feel right.

I actually think that the best solution is to just take IR captures of my cab and just use those, along with the speaker tab settings I'd use through a power amp.  This should yield pretty consistent results.  

This is more advanced than most would do (and I've not done it yet, just used results from someone else).

But what you do to find the correct LF settings is this impedance measurement - http://www.roomeqwizard.com/wizardhelpv5/help_en-GB/html/impedancemeasurement.html#top

And then you use Cliff's formula in this thread (in some paragraphs near the end of the first post) http://forum.fractalaudio.com/cliffs-notes/78003-about-speaker-lf-resonance.html

Nowhere near as user friendly as the Kemper if you want more 'correct' response from the amp, doesn't mean you can't get sounds you like without knowing this stuff.  I'd wager the vast majority of Axe FX users do not know the impedance measurement of their real cab, and annoyingly nobody posts the measurements of the cabs they shoot IRs from.  It is a missed opportunity, but people could choose to do it going forward and it would improve the user experience on the Axe

With the Kemper I just turn the gain knob.
>:D<

(okay, okay... not trying to turn this into a battle!)

)

I'm talking about 'from scratch'.

With my own presets I just adjust tone and gain as per normal when I change guitars.

Once you've created your own presets the user experience is pretty good, as playing the thing is fun.  I've made about 10 amp only presets this week already for home use through my cab.  I'm really enjoying the results... now that finally I have thump in the right place the high gain patches are sounding really good at home.  I'm really looking forward to tomorrow's rehearsal actually but I'll update my experiences in the Si + Drew don't want Axe FXs anymore thread.

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

the Si + Drew don't want Axe FXs anymore thread.

)