New Fractal multifx thingybob

Danny1969

digitalscream said:

monquixote said:

I think the only amp that does that is the H&K GrandMeister.

...and the Switchblade and Coreblade.

Let's not forget the Jet City FLEX amps, when they finally get them sorted.

And Fender Cyber Twin I think

monquixote

I haven't tried any of the big H&Ks, but my Puretone is a very good sounding and well made amp so they would be something I'd give a serious consideration to if I had your requirements and it would give you 256 fully configurable channels.

I'd wonder what the latency was on the switching as it's reconfiguring networks of resistors to set the virtual pot values. 

Drew_TNBD

Clarky said:

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

@Drew_fx are you getting the itch for a Herbert / VH4 with MIDI control via a G-System or FX8 [or similar] yet???

if I wasn't a multi-fx type user, that would be my rig without any doubt.. I reckon it'd sound mental too..

Nah mate. Actually right now I'm going in this direction:

Diezel D-Moll as my main amp, with three sounds. Kemper with some FX-loop profiles of the D-Moll, with certain settings to give me another two sounds. Output of my pedalboard into the Kemper. Kemper direct output (without any modelling on it) into the front of my Diezel D-Moll. Ground lift enabled to remove the noise. Kemper plugged into the FX loop of my Diezel D-Moll. Midi controller switching both the amp and the Kemper at the same time. Giving me access to the five sounds I traditionally used when my main amp was a Fryette Sig: X.

Clean (very clean)
Rhythm without boost (slightly on the edge break up clean)
Rhythm with boost (tight low-gain rhythms)
Lead without boost (tight chugga-chugga metal rhythms)
Lead with boost (my main high gain sound for rhythms and leads)

It also allows me to use the four FX slots on the Kemper as extra effects too. So it'll be:

Ernie Ball Volume
Dunlop 535Q
Phase 90
Line 6 M9
Boo Instruments 808 tubescreamer clone
DIY Midi controller with 5 footswitches (amp channel selector basically)
Diezel D-Moll or Kemper
Egnater Tourmaster

ah ok… so you're using the KPA to give you effectively channels 4 and 5 then?

Correct!

if I understand the Diezel manuals correctly, it makes me think then that with a VH4 or Herbert plus a MIDI controller [like a nice FCB thingy] you'd essentially have a 128 channel amp with no modelling...

seriously... I need to stop thinking about this less my VH4 itch begins to bubble back up to the surface..

Well you can't turn any of the knobs on these amps, so it's not really 128 channels. All it really does it switch between your 4 channels, and can activate the master volume selector and FX loop. AFAIK. If you're telling me you can turn the knobs of the VH4 using midi CC's, then I'm selling everything and buying one lol.

from the manual:

6.1 Programming the HerbertIt is quite easy to program your Diezel Herbert and, also, easy to explain. Pushing the "Store" toggle switch twice must follow each change in the MIDI program. After the first click, the selected blue LED lights will blink. Click on the switch again and your program is in memory. Each of the 128 programs (patches, program changes) can be changed as often as is desired.

 

the VH4 manual says the same thing.. ok so the HV4 is a 4-chan and the Herbert a 3-chan.. but if I'm understanding this right such that hitting "store" takes a snap-shot of the front panel and saves it, then you essenially have 128 channels yes??

 

note to author: I have an Axe-II.. it's the right preamp for me.. it's little, light and has all the control I need.. plus it's my reamping solution.. I absolutely must resist being seduced by a VH4 and a Herbert...

Nah, I'm pretty sure that's just dodgy German. It doesn't snapshot any of the knob settings.

Clarky

Clarky said:

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

@Drew_fx are you getting the itch for a Herbert / VH4 with MIDI control via a G-System or FX8 [or similar] yet???

if I wasn't a multi-fx type user, that would be my rig without any doubt.. I reckon it'd sound mental too..

Nah mate. Actually right now I'm going in this direction:

Diezel D-Moll as my main amp, with three sounds. Kemper with some FX-loop profiles of the D-Moll, with certain settings to give me another two sounds. Output of my pedalboard into the Kemper. Kemper direct output (without any modelling on it) into the front of my Diezel D-Moll. Ground lift enabled to remove the noise. Kemper plugged into the FX loop of my Diezel D-Moll. Midi controller switching both the amp and the Kemper at the same time. Giving me access to the five sounds I traditionally used when my main amp was a Fryette Sig: X.

Clean (very clean)
Rhythm without boost (slightly on the edge break up clean)
Rhythm with boost (tight low-gain rhythms)
Lead without boost (tight chugga-chugga metal rhythms)
Lead with boost (my main high gain sound for rhythms and leads)

It also allows me to use the four FX slots on the Kemper as extra effects too. So it'll be:

Ernie Ball Volume
Dunlop 535Q
Phase 90
Line 6 M9
Boo Instruments 808 tubescreamer clone
DIY Midi controller with 5 footswitches (amp channel selector basically)
Diezel D-Moll or Kemper
Egnater Tourmaster

ah ok… so you're using the KPA to give you effectively channels 4 and 5 then?

Correct!

if I understand the Diezel manuals correctly, it makes me think then that with a VH4 or Herbert plus a MIDI controller [like a nice FCB thingy] you'd essentially have a 128 channel amp with no modelling...

seriously... I need to stop thinking about this less my VH4 itch begins to bubble back up to the surface..

Well you can't turn any of the knobs on these amps, so it's not really 128 channels. All it really does it switch between your 4 channels, and can activate the master volume selector and FX loop. AFAIK. If you're telling me you can turn the knobs of the VH4 using midi CC's, then I'm selling everything and buying one lol.

 

from the manual:6.1 Programming the Herbert

It is quite easy to program your Diezel Herbert and, also, easy to explain. Pushing the "Store" toggle switch twice must follow each change in the MIDI program. After the first click, the selected blue LED lights will blink. Click on the switch again and your program is in memory. Each of the 128 programs (patches, program changes) can be changed as often as is desired.

the VH4 manual says the same thing.. ok so the HV4 is a 4-chan and the Herbert a 3-chan.. but if I'm understanding this right such that hitting "store" takes a snap-shot of the front panel and saves it, then you essenially have 128 channels yes??

 note to author: I have an Axe-II.. it's the right preamp for me.. it's little, light and has all the control I need.. plus it's my reamping solution.. I absolutely must resist being seduced by a VH4 and a Herbert...

 

NOTE: I re-posted this cos some iffy formatting I couldn't sort in my original reply..

Clarky

@Drew_fx so the only thing stored then are switch positions rather than the positions of the knobs themselves??

Drew_TNBD

Clarky said:

@Drew_fx so the only thing stored then are switch positions rather than the positions of the knobs themselves??

Yeah exactly. The D-Moll is the same.

ICBM

The Fender Cyber Twin definitely has physically turning automated knobs.

Clarky

Drew_fx said:

Clarky said:

@Drew_fx so the only thing stored then are switch positions rather than the positions of the knobs themselves??

Yeah exactly. The D-Moll is the same.

ahhhh........ gotchya...

my Diezel GAS has just vapourized....

grammar

I don't think they've missed the mark at all, it’s a great live tool. Tools aren’t supposed to be fun. £1200 for this kind of functionality is a bargain if you gig for a living. There's very few pro gigs that will support touring a big rack system with a tech so most of us end up lugging around pedalboards. This can be your main board or an amazing fly rig.

A big Strymon/Musicomlab based pedalboard realistically is going to cost at least £2500. Plenty of players have this much sunk on their boards. I don’t know anyone that enjoys messing with knobs and programming sounds, it’s just what you have to do to get by. Anyway -

£1200 - Bigsky, Timeline, Mobius

£500 - Musicomlab MKIV

£300 - Pedalboard+Cables+Power

£500 - Dirt, Compressor, etc 

On most tours you set your sounds/setlist and that doesn't change for months so knobs are a non issue once dialled. 

You won’t want to fly a big board like that around so you’ll still need something way smaller that can get similar sounds for fly dates. I’ve been using the M9 for this but honestly its a struggle, really I should add some dirt but then I’d lose the presets. 

Now for writing/jamming I’d never use a Multifx  - Knobs>Menus - any day of the week. IMO you want to stay away from screens during the creative process but that’s another discussion..

So yeah it doesn’t have to be an either/or decision. It’s not going to right for everyone but for a lot of people it’ll be perfect. 

Danny1969

grammar said:

I don't think they've missed the mark at all, it’s a great live tool. Tools aren’t supposed to be fun. £1200 for this kind of functionality is a bargain if you gig for a living. There's very few pro gigs that will support touring a big rack system with a tech so most of us end up lugging around pedalboards. This can be your main board or an amazing fly rig.

A big Strymon/Musicomlab based pedalboard realistically is going to cost at least £2500. Plenty of players have this much sunk on their boards. I don’t know anyone that enjoys messing with knobs and programming sounds, it’s just what you have to do to get by. Anyway -

£1200 - Bigsky, Timeline, Mobius

£500 - Musicomlab MKIV

£300 - Pedalboard+Cables+Power

£500 - Dirt, Compressor, etc 

On most tours you set your sounds/setlist and that doesn't change for months so knobs are a non issue once dialled. 

You won’t want to fly a big board like that around so you’ll still need something way smaller that can get similar sounds for fly dates. I’ve been using the M9 for this but honestly its a struggle, really I should add some dirt but then I’d lose the presets. 

Now for writing/jamming I’d never use a Multifx  - Knobs>Menus - any day of the week. IMO you want to stay away from screens during the creative process but that’s another discussion..

So yeah it doesn’t have to be an either/or decision. It’s not going to right for everyone but for a lot of people it’ll be perfect. 

mmmm I got most of that in my GT10 which also switchs via midi my JMP-1 

Would anyone notice the better quality Fractal delay, compressor, octaver sounds etc once the rigs mic'ed up and put through a big PA ?

For effects only there's cheaper solutions unless the thing can do some amazing effects I'm not aware of.

grammar

Danny1969 said:

grammar said:

mmmm I got most of that in my GT10 which also switchs via midi my JMP-1 

Would anyone notice the better quality Fractal delay, compressor, octaver sounds etc once the rigs mic'ed up and put through a big PA ?

For effects only there's cheaper solutions unless the thing can do some amazing effects I'm not aware of.

You could say that about any gear though really.. there's always a way to do something cheaper. We could probably all just use POD's but that would be no fun

digitalscream

Forgot to mention...there's always the Engl E580 preamp and the Soldano-Caswell X99, both of which are a) horribly expensive, b) very rare and c) fully MIDI-controllable.

Clarky

Danny1969 said:

grammar said:

I don't think they've missed the mark at all, it’s a great live tool. Tools aren’t supposed to be fun. £1200 for this kind of functionality is a bargain if you gig for a living. There's very few pro gigs that will support touring a big rack system with a tech so most of us end up lugging around pedalboards. This can be your main board or an amazing fly rig.

A big Strymon/Musicomlab based pedalboard realistically is going to cost at least £2500. Plenty of players have this much sunk on their boards. I don’t know anyone that enjoys messing with knobs and programming sounds, it’s just what you have to do to get by. Anyway -

£1200 - Bigsky, Timeline, Mobius

£500 - Musicomlab MKIV

£300 - Pedalboard+Cables+Power

£500 - Dirt, Compressor, etc 

On most tours you set your sounds/setlist and that doesn't change for months so knobs are a non issue once dialled. 

You won’t want to fly a big board like that around so you’ll still need something way smaller that can get similar sounds for fly dates. I’ve been using the M9 for this but honestly its a struggle, really I should add some dirt but then I’d lose the presets. 

Now for writing/jamming I’d never use a Multifx  - Knobs>Menus - any day of the week. IMO you want to stay away from screens during the creative process but that’s another discussion..

So yeah it doesn’t have to be an either/or decision. It’s not going to right for everyone but for a lot of people it’ll be perfect. 

mmmm I got most of that in my GT10 which also switchs via midi my JMP-1 

Would anyone notice the better quality Fractal delay, compressor, octaver sounds etc once the rigs mic'ed up and put through a big PA ?

For effects only there's cheaper solutions unless the thing can do some amazing effects I'm not aware of.

most of the fx in the Axe are far superior to the GT-10..

but would anyone notice??? maybe, maybe not..

but 'anyone' don't really count. the only person that has to be crazy in love with the tone is you..

cos that's what you have to work with…

if you love it you will certainly play better

what 'anyone' can spot though is if you're having a shite day in the office when you're up there doing your thing…

so.. if you're happy with your tone, you play good, the 'anyones' out there see you playing your nads off..

and they'll love it..

and likewise, if you think your tone is sucking, you'll be fighting it all night, failing to put your best foot forward, and many in the crowd will think you suck..

so… please yourself… then you'll be better placed to please everyone..

Drew_TNBD

grammar said:

Danny1969 said:

grammar said:

mmmm I got most of that in my GT10 which also switchs via midi my JMP-1 

Would anyone notice the better quality Fractal delay, compressor, octaver sounds etc once the rigs mic'ed up and put through a big PA ?

For effects only there's cheaper solutions unless the thing can do some amazing effects I'm not aware of.

You could say that about any gear though really.. there's always a way to do something cheaper. We could probably all just use POD's but that would be no fun

I thought tools weren't meant to be fun?

Clarky

grammar said:

Danny1969 said:

grammar said:

mmmm I got most of that in my GT10 which also switchs via midi my JMP-1 

Would anyone notice the better quality Fractal delay, compressor, octaver sounds etc once the rigs mic'ed up and put through a big PA ?

For effects only there's cheaper solutions unless the thing can do some amazing effects I'm not aware of.

You could say that about any gear though really.. there's always a way to do something cheaper. We could probably all just use POD's but that would be no fun

the real truth in that comment is.. "POD" followed by "no fun"

Drew_TNBD

grammar said:

I don't think they've missed the mark at all, it’s a great live tool. Tools aren’t supposed to be fun. £1200 for this kind of functionality is a bargain if you gig for a living. There's very few pro gigs that will support touring a big rack system with a tech so most of us end up lugging around pedalboards. This can be your main board or an amazing fly rig.

A big Strymon/Musicomlab based pedalboard realistically is going to cost at least £2500. Plenty of players have this much sunk on their boards. I don’t know anyone that enjoys messing with knobs and programming sounds, it’s just what you have to do to get by. Anyway -

£1200 - Bigsky, Timeline, Mobius

£500 - Musicomlab MKIV

£300 - Pedalboard+Cables+Power

£500 - Dirt, Compressor, etc 

On most tours you set your sounds/setlist and that doesn't change for months so knobs are a non issue once dialled. 

You won’t want to fly a big board like that around so you’ll still need something way smaller that can get similar sounds for fly dates. I’ve been using the M9 for this but honestly its a struggle, really I should add some dirt but then I’d lose the presets. 

Now for writing/jamming I’d never use a Multifx  - Knobs>Menus - any day of the week. IMO you want to stay away from screens during the creative process but that’s another discussion..

So yeah it doesn’t have to be an either/or decision. It’s not going to right for everyone but for a lot of people it’ll be perfect. 

Also, I would add... if it's Strymon you're comparing too... well the Axe's reverbs and delays and modulations can certainly get into that territory... but it takes a lot of work. It's not as easy to just turn a knob and get that lush reverb that you can with the Big Sky.

I think the price, the complexity, and the fact that less complex and easier to dial in units are half the price... those are the things that are going to make this one a difficult sell for some people.

I say that as a current Axe FX owner, and as one of the loudest voices calling for something like the FX8 for the last, I dunno... 5 years at least. Honestly, I think TC Electronic could do better, for less money. Lets hope they eventually do; by taking all they learned from their Toneprint series and branching out into a fully extensible multi-fx.

Currently I'm using an M9 for reverbs and delays. Not having much of a problem with it.

grammar

Drew_fx said:

grammar said:

Also, I would add... if it's Strymon you're comparing too... well the Axe's reverbs and delays and modulations can certainly get into that territory... but it takes a lot of work. It's not as easy to just turn a knob and get that lush reverb that you can with the Big Sky.

I think the price, the complexity, and the fact that less complex and easier to dial in units are half the price... those are the things that are going to make this one a difficult sell for some people.

I say that as a current Axe FX owner, and as one of the loudest voices calling for something like the FX8 for the last, I dunno... 5 years at least. Honestly, I think TC Electronic could do better, for less money. Lets hope they eventually do; by taking all they learned from their Toneprint series and branching out into a fully extensible multi-fx.

Currently I'm using an M9 for reverbs and delays. Not having much of a problem with it.

I agree it won't be for everyone but as far as multifx go the FX8 represents the ultra high end. It'll be bought for very specific reasons, in my case size and weight being big ones. If complexity and price are the only drawbacks I'm OK with that, better that than inferior sound.

If I ever do a tour where there's no stage volume the Axe-Fx will be an option too.

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM;373585" said:

The Fender Cyber Twin definitely has physically turning automated knobs.

The t rex spin doctor does this.

No idea how it sounds but it's really really cool.

digitalscream

Drew_fx said:

Also, I would add... if it's Strymon you're comparing too... well the Axe's reverbs and delays and modulations can certainly get into that territory... but it takes a lot of work. It's not as easy to just turn a knob and get that lush reverb that you can with the Big Sky.

Perhaps this is what Fractal gear is missing - what's called "sensible defaults" and "opinionated frameworks" in the programming world. When you have something that's so complex and capable of incredibly deep editing, you need to have defaults which are suitable for the vast majority of people if you're going to be popular. I haven't come across anyone with an AxeFX who hasn't told me they spend hours/days/weeks tweaking just to get their sounds right...to me, that's just not cricket. It just tells me that the defaults aren't sensible enough.

Drew_TNBD

digitalscream said:

Drew_fx said:

Also, I would add... if it's Strymon you're comparing too... well the Axe's reverbs and delays and modulations can certainly get into that territory... but it takes a lot of work. It's not as easy to just turn a knob and get that lush reverb that you can with the Big Sky.

Perhaps this is what Fractal gear is missing - what's called "sensible defaults" and "opinionated frameworks" in the programming world. When you have something that's so complex and capable of incredibly deep editing, you need to have defaults which are suitable for the vast majority of people if you're going to be popular. I haven't come across anyone with an AxeFX who hasn't told me they spend hours/days/weeks tweaking just to get their sounds right...to me, that's just not cricket. It just tells me that the defaults aren't sensible enough.

Aye, I agree. I think a lot of the time they're just what Cliff likes, or they're just the halfway point. The speaker resonance is cranked really high in all of the amp  models on the Axe FX for instance, which often makes the low-end sound mushy and unrefined. The first thing I end up tweaking with any amp.

You'd think they'd let you save your own defaults.... but no...