The F1 thread

chillidoggy

I’m surprised Bottas had his contract renewed for next year. I also think he’s underperforming. He needed to be the next Rosberg, but he’s failed to impress.

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

sinbaadi said:

These teams should be fighting to get Charle Leclerc in their car, not worrying over which has-been to bring back.

There's going to be a massive shake out at the end of 2018. Lots of drivers contracts end and a lot of drivers, like Bottas, are on one year deals and aren't performing. I suspect Williams will be mid table again next year so giving Di Resta a one year deal makes sense - he has experience and can help develop the car. There are a lot of young hot shots waiting in the wings so I think we'll be saying goodbye to a number of drivers post 2018.

I'm not convinced Bottas is underperforming, 2 wins, 8 podiums and five top 5s is generally what you'd expect. 

He is seriously underperforming - Lauda has said it Wolff's face says it all and even Bottas has said it's not good enough. Hamilton is making him look average. I'd like to see Ricciardo in the other Merc. He'd keep Hamilton honest. It's clear he's leaving Red Bull as he and Max have a toxic relationship.

Here's what Bottas thinks: https://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/360201/

Wolff's view: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132188/mercedes-worried-about-bottas-slump

Everyone has a wobble in their careers. Vettel had one in the beginning of 2012 yet still won the WDC and in the same year Button was all at sea from Monaco to Germany, especially Canada where he got slaughtered by Hamilton.

Regarding the Max and Dan toxic relationship, did you not see their after race interviews recently (poss Malaysia)? They got on so well LH asked them if they share a room and MV said they share a bed, DR said it was a choice of a new front wing or their own beds... they appear to get on like a house on fire.

As for being clear DR is leaving RB- you haven't exactly been Mystic Meg for the driver market this year.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

sinbaadi said:

These teams should be fighting to get Charle Leclerc in their car, not worrying over which has-been to bring back.

There's going to be a massive shake out at the end of 2018. Lots of drivers contracts end and a lot of drivers, like Bottas, are on one year deals and aren't performing. I suspect Williams will be mid table again next year so giving Di Resta a one year deal makes sense - he has experience and can help develop the car. There are a lot of young hot shots waiting in the wings so I think we'll be saying goodbye to a number of drivers post 2018.

I'm not convinced Bottas is underperforming, 2 wins, 8 podiums and five top 5s is generally what you'd expect. 

He is seriously underperforming - Lauda has said it Wolff's face says it all and even Bottas has said it's not good enough. Hamilton is making him look average. I'd like to see Ricciardo in the other Merc. He'd keep Hamilton honest. It's clear he's leaving Red Bull as he and Max have a toxic relationship.

Here's what Bottas thinks: https://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/360201/

Wolff's view: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132188/mercedes-worried-about-bottas-slump

Everyone has a wobble in their careers. Vettel had one in the beginning of 2012 yet still won the WDC and in the same year Button was all at sea from Monaco to Germany, especially Canada where he got slaughtered by Hamilton.

Regarding the Max and Dan toxic relationship, did you not see their after race interviews recently (poss Malaysia)? They got on so well LH asked them if they share a room and MV said they share a bed, DR said it was a choice of a new front wing or their own beds... they appear to get on like a house on fire.

As for being clear DR is leaving RB- you haven't exactly been Mystic Meg for the driver market this year.

WTF ... fine .. Helmut Marko has said Ricciardo is on the market .. Ricciardo has said he'd like to partner Hamilton .. draw the dotted lines .. but hell Mystic Meg ..

I'm out ..

Boromedic

Bottas is struggling yes, but he is also being shown up by Lewis. When he is on it only 2 drivers (3 if you include Max) Alonso and Vettel can get near him. So its 50/50 for me, yes he is not getting the most out the package but Lewis is on another level. 

The only problem I can see with them potentially replacing Bottas is that the team has been a lot more harmonious this year and they've still won both titles. How much is that stability worth against unsettling the current best driver on the grid? With Lewis there they will probably do it again next year, sticking Ricciardo in there will unsettle Lewis and they could end up like they did in 2016. 

sinbaadi

This is F1.  Why do people make assumptions of driver form based on the performance of their team mate?

Bottas's form might be the best or worst of his career so far.  Maybe Alonso would make Hamilton look ordinary.  Maybe the opposite would occur.

The point is that you can say driver x is getting 100% from the car, but all it takes is a Sainz/Hulkenburg type event. 

Boromedic

They make the comparison with their team mates because all else being equal they are in the same car and therefore capable of being at the same level, its the only real adequate yard stick tbh. Even then its flawed by issues like reliability, Hamilton was faster than Rosberg last year at more races, but his form looked worse due to the reliability issues his car suffered as an example.

Anyway if P1 was owt to go by Bottas is starting to look better, however he has usually been faster than Lewis at other high downforce circuits this year so maybe thats why.

Garthy

Horner said during the TP press conference that Ricciardo will be offered a three year deal with RBR to take him to the end of  2021 season.

sinbaadi

Boromedic said:

They make the comparison with their team mates because all else being equal they are in the same car and therefore capable of being at the same level, its the only real adequate yard stick tbh. Even then its flawed by issues like reliability, Hamilton was faster than Rosberg last year at more races, but his form looked worse due to the reliability issues his car suffered as an example.

I agree that it's the only comparison you can make, but as yard sticks go it's not great.  It's like a yard stick of varying length depending on who that team mate is.  

Boromedic

Get in there Lewissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!

57Deluxe

He made a right meal of passing Alonso though...

Boromedic

Who cares...... many reasons and it matters not a jot....

darcym

First time I've seen Vestapen be dominant in pace and race craft,  (he's been quick no doubt) but this was for me a race that showed the belief the people in the know have on him.

Nitefly

Driver of the day?  Vettel.  And I am REALLY not a fan of Vettel.

TimmyO

Nitefly said:

Driver of the day?  Vettel.  And I am REALLY not a fan of Vettel.

ditto on both counts 

TimmyO

chillidoggy said:

I’m surprised Bottas had his contract renewed for next year. I also think he’s underperforming. He needed to be the next Rosberg, but he’s failed to impress.

wtf? He's 3rd in the championship, and closing on Vettel for 2nd. 

Sometimes when I read this thread I wonder if we're all watching the same races lol 

Garthy

Nitefly said:

Driver of the day?  Vettel.  And I am REALLY not a fan of Vettel.

He's a cheat. Verstappen was awesome today, pissed over everyone while joking with his engineer. Ocon too was great.

sinbaadi

Vettel should have had a penalty for causing the puncture.  Plenty of time, clear vision, loads of room, and he drove into the rear quarter of a car in front.  

darcym

sinbaadi said:

Vettel should have had a penalty for causing the puncture.  Plenty of time, clear vision, loads of room, and he drove into the rear quarter of a car in front.  

plenty of time ? it was nano-seconds, loads of room ? there was 3 cars in close quaters that had already touched once and where fighting for the lead, clear vision ? Hamilton was behind him, you can't see anything out of the mirrors beyond a blob flashing in / out of vision to let you know what side the car is on.

There is no way that was intentional he was simply in the way as Hamilton rejoined the track after having being pushed wide, no-ones fault, simply 3 cars having a close fight with not enough grip.

Hamilton touched the back of Verstappen trying to take the lead, should he have got a penalty too ? no, because in that sort of situation, it was impossible to do anything other than they did really, hence why there was not even an investigation by the stewards. 

I hear pundits saying Vettel was at fault, but it doesn't feel like any one was at fault, 

3 cars went into the lead, Verstappen was aggressive and took the lead, Vettel was aggressive and slid a little with understeer and touched Verstappen, Hamilton was aggressive, tried to go around the outside, touched Verstappen and clipped Vettel rejoining the track as Vettel was moving slightly over to retake his line after the contact with Vertstappen, nothing bad sport or too aggressive about it, a little rushed, perhaps, but two of these where fighting for the championship and all three had a point to prove in the race and needed that first corner lead, as Verstappen proved, that first corner lead was critical to controlling the race. 

aord43

darcym said:

sinbaadi said:

Vettel should have had a penalty for causing the puncture.  Plenty of time, clear vision, loads of room, and he drove into the rear quarter of a car in front.  

plenty of time ? it was nano-seconds, loads of room ? there was 3 cars in close quaters that had already touched once and where fighting for the lead, clear vision ? Hamilton was behind him, you can't see anything out of the mirrors beyond a blob flashing in / out of vision to let you know what side the car is on.

There is no way that was intentional he was simply in the way as Hamilton rejoined the track after having being pushed wide, no-ones fault, simply 3 cars having a close fight with not enough grip.

Hamilton touched the back of Verstappen trying to take the lead, should he have got a penalty too ? no, because in that sort of situation, it was impossible to do anything other than they did really, hence why there was not even an investigation by the stewards. 

I hear pundits saying Vettel was at fault, but it doesn't feel like any one was at fault, 

3 cars went into the lead, Verstappen was aggressive and took the lead, Vettel was aggressive and slid a little with understeer and touched Verstappen, Hamilton was aggressive, tried to go around the outside, touched Verstappen and clipped Vettel rejoining the track as Vettel was moving slightly over to retake his line after the contact with Vertstappen, nothing bad sport or too aggressive about it, a little rushed, perhaps, but two of these where fighting for the championship and all three had a point to prove in the race and needed that first corner lead, as Verstappen proved, that first corner lead was critical to controlling the race. 

It wasn't intentional on Vettel's part, that would have been stupid, but it was careless and he possibly could have avoided it.  That and the consequence (broken front wing, back to almost the back of the pack) disqualifies him for Driver of the Day in my book.  That would be Verstappen for me.

aord43

57Deluxe said:

He made a right meal of passing Alonso though...

Yeah, what's that all about? Mercedes need to sort their car out if it's that fussy.
That was a good tussle with Alonso though, and shows that both are great drivers who fought hard but clean.  It's good that McLaren are getting better, hopefully next year they will be a contender.  I'd rather see them win than Ferrari.