The F1 thread

Cols

McLaren are in trouble at the minute.  No sponsors, no pace and no reliability.

Fretwired

Cols said:

McLaren are in trouble at the minute.  No sponsors, no pace and no reliability.

New sponsors announced .. ;-)

simonk

This is worth a watch... James Allison comparing this years Merc with last years.

https://youtu.be/nfBOxwSNg6s

Heartfeltdawn

So is this. I love how it looks. 

PC_Dave

I watched Grand Prix Driver on Amazon Prime at the weekend. I couldn’t help but feel sorry for Stoffel the Waffle and really had my fingers crossed for him and the team this year. Then yesterday happened.... surely lightning can’t strike twice.....?!?

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Looks like yet another troubled day for McLaren. An oil leak apparently the issue this time. 

You have to wonder if the fact they switched to Renault so late in the development of the 2018 car is partly to blame for causing the issues. Must have been a massive effort to rejig their new chassis, aero, cooling etc for a whole new power train.

darcym

PC_Dave said:

I watched Grand Prix Driver on Amazon Prime at the weekend. I couldn’t help but feel sorry for Stoffel the Waffle and really had my fingers crossed for him and the team this year. Then yesterday happened.... surely lightning can’t strike twice.....?!?

I actually enjoyed that little 4 episode series, I hope they do something similar this year.

PC_Dave

darcym said:

PC_Dave said:

I watched Grand Prix Driver on Amazon Prime at the weekend. I couldn’t help but feel sorry for Stoffel the Waffle and really had my fingers crossed for him and the team this year. Then yesterday happened.... surely lightning can’t strike twice.....?!?

I actually enjoyed that little 4 episode series, I hope they do something similar this year.

I couldn’t help but think they’d already made their minds up about Honda at the beginning of the season - to be so open and blatantly poo poo the relationship in the series couldn’t be coincidence, could it?

Like a few people have said on the BBC live text on the testing - same thing happens with a new engine, could it be the car/team, not the engine supplier that’s the problem?

Fretwired

PC_Dave said:

Like a few people have said on the BBC live text on the testing - same thing happens with a new engine, could it be the car/team, not the engine supplier that’s the problem?

The other Renault engine cars are OK - the battery was a bad batch apparently. McLaren will be playing catchup as the Renault relationship is new.

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

I guess the saving grace is that it looks like they're not horrifically slow when the car holds in one piece, not like the last three years. Probably destined to be fighting it out with Renault, Williams and Force India in the midfield.

Looks like Red Bull have had a cracking day today. Fingers crossed for a good three-way tussle at the front!!

Garthy

https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/latest/headlines/2018/2/mclaren-unveil-striking-2018-f1-car/_jcr_content/image16x9.img.1536.high.jpg

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/racefansdotnet-XPB_923534_HiRes-e1519730880245.jpg

https://gotmdm.com/sport/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2018/02/Renault-Sport-RS18-front-track-F1-Testing-2018-photo-Jacques-Denis-TeamDM-945x630.jpg

So in 2014 they are the worst Mercedes team and beaten by RBR & Ferrari too, despite having a much better engine. 2015-2016 they have an awful time with Honda chasing 'size zero' and trying to get Honda to engineer a way around shrink wrapped bodywork, no test mules, no access to the current gearbox and treated as if they were a supplier, not a partner. Now with a Renault they've had an axle fail, burnt bodywork, had an oil leak, had a hydraulic leak...

Yet somehow people still give them the benefit of the doubt?

chillidoggy

Given the money involved I’m always astounded by “bad batches” of any F1 parts, good grief, everything should be perfect!

Cols

So, other teams have started running on the hypersofts.  McLaren are 1.8s off the pace of the similarly engined Red Bull on the same tyres.

If that doesn’t change dramatically by Melbourne, I’d say there’ll be a few senior McLaren people at the Job Centre the Monday after the race.

Fretwired

Cols said:

So, other teams have started running on the hypersofts.  McLaren are 1.8s off the pace of the similarly engined Red Bull on the same tyres.

If that doesn’t change dramatically by Melbourne, I’d say there’ll be a few senior McLaren people at the Job Centre the Monday after the race.

I suspect they are running a different programme to everyone else. I remember when Mercedes were off the pace in testing and then they turned up to race and blew the opposition away. I'm not saying that will happen but I seriously doubt McLaren are 1.8 seconds behind Red Bull.

Cols

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

So, other teams have started running on the hypersofts.  McLaren are 1.8s off the pace of the similarly engined Red Bull on the same tyres.

If that doesn’t change dramatically by Melbourne, I’d say there’ll be a few senior McLaren people at the Job Centre the Monday after the race.

I suspect they are running a different programme to everyone else. I remember when Mercedes were off the pace in testing and then they turned up to race and blew the opposition away. I'm not saying that will happen but I seriously doubt McLaren are 1.8 seconds behind Red Bull.

There are only two programmes which I can see; the first is to put the supersticky tyres on to go for sponsor-impressing times (not working), and the second is to hone their fault finding and repair skills to a knife edge.

I’m sure they’re not as much as 1.8s off the pace in reality, but neither are there many positive signs.

Fretwired

Cols said:

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

So, other teams have started running on the hypersofts.  McLaren are 1.8s off the pace of the similarly engined Red Bull on the same tyres.

If that doesn’t change dramatically by Melbourne, I’d say there’ll be a few senior McLaren people at the Job Centre the Monday after the race.

I suspect they are running a different programme to everyone else. I remember when Mercedes were off the pace in testing and then they turned up to race and blew the opposition away. I'm not saying that will happen but I seriously doubt McLaren are 1.8 seconds behind Red Bull.

There are only two programmes which I can see; the first is to put the supersticky tyres on to go for sponsor-impressing times (not working), and the second is to hone their fault finding and repair skills to a knife edge.

I’m sure they’re not as much as 1.8s off the pace in reality, but neither are there many positive signs.

It will take them three or four races to get everything bedded down. The team needs a reliable car that can finish races. Once you have reliability and a good understanding of the car the performance will come. Red Bull had a good car last year with the Renault engine. They were always going to be a few steps ahead of McLaren and that's before you get Newey's design genius. Red Bull will beat McLaren this year.

Heartfeltdawn

Last year Hammy qualified P1 with 1:19.149. The RBR's were fifth and sixth (1.19.706 and 1.20.175 respectively). Alonso was seventh with 1.21.048. With all those times, you can assume a low fuel level. 

Ricciardo's 1:18.047 today was the fastest lap ever on the current layout. Pirelli expect a time under 1:17 at some point as the track rubbers up. Alonso's time of 1:19.856 was a morning run: Ricciardo's an afternoon run. Cooler conditions have turbo advantages.

A few years back, the fuel effect of 10 kilos of fuel was 0.4 seconds per lap. So assuming matching car performance levels between McLaren and Red Bull, then a lap time difference of 1.8 seconds would suggest a 45kg fuel difference between them during those fastest laps. I would hazard a guess that McLaren this morning were looking at performance rather than long distance with a reduced engine mode. 

Still not enough to say for sure but the signs are not positive and reinforced trousers might well be on the order in Woking. 

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

It will take them three or four races to get everything bedded down. The team needs a reliable car that can finish races. Once you have reliability and a good understanding of the car the performance will come. Red Bull had a good car last year with the Renault engine. They were always going to be a few steps ahead of McLaren and that's before you get Newey's design genius. Red Bull will beat McLaren this year.

Very true. Test the reliability with a lower engine mode and high fuel, perhaps use an option tyre to simulate what happens if you haven't qualified for Q3... I just can't believe that a reliability test would be done in cool conditions on a morning run on hyper-softs. 

Boullier today:

""It's just testing," he said. "On the tyres, if you look at the lap time, Red Bull did a test this morning, [they] put on new mediums [and then] new softs.

"They are half a second faster only, so there is not much difference because of the tarmac specification and the temperature as well. We have a technical reason why we want to work on the car with these [hypersoft] tyres."

Erm, half a second? 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXr2fzPXkAY9czx.jpg

Heartfeltdawn

Speedtrap figures from Day 1... 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXojEgFXkAEIMlG.jpg

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Heartfeltdawn said:

Speedtrap figures from Day 1... 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXojEgFXkAEIMlG.jpg

Interesting to see the Toro Rosso so high on the speed trap. I wonder what kinda power that new Honda is kicking out relative to the other engines? Certainly looks a lot more competitive than the past 3 years.