The F1 thread

Boromedic

markr76 said:

It’s funny as they had the Brawn GP back at work a few weeks back. It was amazing to see how small it was compared to the new cars. I guess as I see the cars say in day out, you don’t really realise how much bigger they’ve got. Just like my own waistline!!! 

 It I think Monaco shouldn’t be on the calendar anymore. Traditionally it was only kept as that’s where a lot of deals and business are sorted. But I’m not sure that’s the case anymore. 

Turn it into a time trial! Bout the only thing that makes it interesting is balls out quali!

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Even though the eventual result was very predictable, he race was proper 'edge of the seat' stuff for about 15 laps when the rain came, great entertainment. About 15 laps more entertainment than Monte Carlo usually provides, so can't really complain. 

To be fair, even before the rain there was some pretty tasty driving further down the order, including some genuine wheel to wheel racing and a couple of genuine overtakes. Ballsy stuff!

stickyfiddle

@Dontgiveupyourdayjob exactly. It turned the middle third into a "will it rain/will Max's tyres last?" vibe, and the final third into a genuinely interesting bit of racing.

I couldn't help feeling George's penalty was unfair given he couldn't see anything behind him and had Stroll further down the slip road so he couldn't do the usual spin turn. Given how many times Perez drove into people yesterday I'd have put that one at least 50/50. But no impact on the outcome so that's good. 

TimmyO

stickyfiddle said:

@Dontgiveupyourdayjob exactly. It turned the middle third into a "will it rain/will Max's tyres last?" vibe, and the final third into a genuinely interesting bit of racing.

I couldn't help feeling George's penalty was unfair given he couldn't see anything behind him and had Stroll further down the slip road so he couldn't do the usual spin turn. Given how many times Perez drove into people yesterday I'd have put that one at least 50/50. But no impact on the outcome so that's good. 

Similar to Leclerc’s penalty it’s to penalise the team for not being on top of it and telling the driver what (not) to do 

Boromedic

Steady on, you'll all be subscribing to Bernie's idea of sprinklers soon

stickyfiddle

Boromedic said:

Steady on, you'll all be subscribing to Bernie's idea of sprinklers soon

Honestly that would've been way more exciting than the average Monaco GP....

Boromedic

stickyfiddle said:

Boromedic said:

Steady on, you'll all be subscribing to Bernie's idea of sprinklers soon

Honestly that would've been way more exciting than the average Monaco GP....

More than likely, perhaps they should just call it off and leave it as a historic race now. Maybe a new circuit that contains parts of the old?

sinbaadi

It's rarely ever exciting because of a battle for the lead.  But if you can honestly say that just watching them hustle these things around those streets is not in itself exciting then I think we're watching different things.
I don't really mind that it's incredibly difficult to overtake, to be honest that's better than the super-easy DRS overtaking we're used to seeing, and I don't watch F1 because I want to see close battles and lots of changes for the lead.  This is not the best series to watch for that.  But for the spectacle of these ~1000bhp things with performance that is so mismatched to Monaco, struggling to deploy that performance all the way around the lap, it's so special.  There are some brilliant drivers in the field also.  It would be a crying shame for f1 if we lost that.

chillidoggy

In the past I’ve been been in agreement with dropping Monaco from the calendar, but I changed my mind. I’m not interested whether deals are done there, or all the F1 hierarchical politics, and compared to some of the modern street circuits which look like they’re driving down a chain-link fence tunnel at night, at least it looks pretty. And of course every now and then there’s a race that’s really worth watching, like the last one.

Kilgore

I can't see any reason to remove Monaco from the calendar. I like the history, the fact that cars have been racing round the Principality since 1929. F1 isn't exactly short of other races and venues for the rest of the season.

stickyfiddle

I'd rather focus on making the cars shorter and lighter than remove Monaco just because boats are faster at all the other circuits. 

I'd also like to see much longer braking zones in general - that would be a better fix for overtaking everywhere on the calendar

Boromedic

I think you're allowing one half decent race to influence your opinion. Overtaking at Monaco has been impossible since the 80s/90s (Mansell Vs Senna in a way faster car anyone) and them cars were smaller than these ones. Nothing can change the physical size of the circuit, plus the physics of the sport means it's impossible to overtake there anyway.

Sooner go back to Mugello or do Laguna Seca. I will obviously miss the scenic views and amazing spectacle of quali, but the race is decided on the Saturday.

JEM

stickyfiddle said:

I'd rather focus on making the cars shorter and lighter than remove Monaco just because boats are faster at all the other circuits. 

I very much agree. If the cars are too big for the circuit fix the damn cars. The thought of losing yet another historic venue just to be replaced with some new circuit in an oil state or the US does not appeal.

skullfunkerry

Boromedic said:

I think you're allowing one half decent race to influence your opinion. Overtaking at Monaco has been impossible since the 80s/90s (Mansell Vs Senna in a way faster car anyone) and them cars were smaller than these ones. Nothing can change the physical size of the circuit, plus the physics of the sport means it's impossible to overtake there anyway.

Sooner go back to Mugello or do Laguna Seca. I will obviously miss the scenic views and amazing spectacle of quali, but the race is decided on the Saturday.

Michael Schumacher managed quite a few overtakes that year when he was sent to the back of the grid for pretending to go off at Rascasse...

TimmyO

Boromedic said:

I think you're allowing one half decent race to influence your opinion. Overtaking at Monaco has been impossible since the 80s/90s (Mansell Vs Senna in a way faster car anyone) and them cars were smaller than these ones. Nothing can change the physical size of the circuit, plus the physics of the sport means it's impossible to overtake there anyway.

Sooner go back to Mugello or do Laguna Seca. I will obviously miss the scenic views and amazing spectacle of quali, but the race is decided on the Saturday.

I think you're putting overtaking as the entire influence of your judgement of value for a race 

Cols

Thinking about the huge leap forward Aston Martin have made this year - in 2022 Vettel was generally 0.1-0.2s ahead of Stroll.  So far in 2023, Alonso is reliably 0.5-0.6s ahead of Stroll (who, to be fair, has had more than his fair share of car issues along with a broken wrist).

How much is genuine car performance gain and how much is Fernando flattering the team?  Or to put it another way - if it was a 2023 Vettel/Stroll pairing, would we still be expecting Aston Martin as the de facto 3rd placed car?

 

Boromedic

I'd reckon Alonso is one of those drivers, like Max or Lewis, that's worth a few tenths over any other decent driver so he's definitely adding something. Vettel was good at seizing opportunities so if the car was good he'd be up there, I just think he would slide back when things weren't going his way so much. 

That's a long way of saying I think it's 50/50! Hahaha

Emiel

The Aston Martin really is a good car. Lets not forget that a driver simply can't outperform his car as you can't defy physics. For once it looks that now with Lawrence Stroll at the helm, Aston Martin might be on to something and that - unlike Renault/Alpine, McLaren - they can actually start challenging for the championship in a couple of years or so. I really do hope so and I hope they will keep Alonso as long as possible. He has always been one of the special guys, just a great allrounder on whom you can always rely. He rarely makes a mistake and somehow is always delivering.

chillidoggy

There have been drivers who have indeed defied physics. Senna was one, Jim Clark another, and there are others like Hamilton, Alonso, and, more recently, Max.

Vettel was unbeatable for a long time when everything came together. But now? I don’t think he would trump Alonso, who continues to astonish.

Emiel

chillidoggy said:

There have been drivers who have indeed defied physics. Senna was one, Jim Clark another, and there are others like Hamilton, Alonso, and, more recently, Max.

Vettel was unbeatable for a long time when everything came together. But now? I don’t think he would trump Alonso, who continues to astonish.

To be honest I was never quite impressed with Vettel. He was always prone to mistakes when put under pressure. I'll for one always remember the 2011 Canadian GP with him getting overtaken by Button in the very last lap. He is a great driver no doubt but I've always thought Alonso was the more impressive driver in those years.