The F1 thread

fretmeister

So the FIA can change the result after the race has finished if they discover rule breaches?

Whodathunkit!

JEM

stickyfiddle said:

Lolz

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-hands-out-12-penalties-for-track-limit-offences-after-f1-austrian-gp/10490833/ ;

The FIA has previously lobbied Red Bull Ring management to install gravel traps on the exit of Turns 9 and 10 – as is used at the slower Turn 4. But these have not come to fruition owing to the circuit also hosting motorcycle championship events including MotoGP. 

I don't understand this. MotoGP favours gravel traps over tarmac run-offs. The gravel traps at Barcelona were expanded in response to Luis Salom's fatal accident in 2016.

I believe the argument is that on gravel a downed rider will come to a stop fairly quickly but on tarmac they keep sliding until they hit a barrier. Cars can continue to brake effectively on tarmac run-offs but not with gravel and there's a risk they can dig in and flip over.

stickyfiddle

fretmeister said:

So the FIA can change the result after the race has finished if they discover rule breaches?

Whodathunkit!

I see what you did there... 

Boromedic

fretmeister said:

So the FIA can change the result after the race has finished if they discover rule breaches?

Whodathunkit!

Only when it suits...... What a crock of shit they are.

sinbaadi

JEM said:

stickyfiddle said:

Lolz

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-hands-out-12-penalties-for-track-limit-offences-after-f1-austrian-gp/10490833/ ;

The FIA has previously lobbied Red Bull Ring management to install gravel traps on the exit of Turns 9 and 10 – as is used at the slower Turn 4. But these have not come to fruition owing to the circuit also hosting motorcycle championship events including MotoGP. 

I don't understand this. MotoGP favours gravel traps over tarmac run-offs. The gravel traps at Barcelona were expanded in response to Luis Salom's fatal accident in 2016.

I believe the argument is that on gravel a downed rider will come to a stop fairly quickly but on tarmac they keep sliding until they hit a barrier. Cars can continue to brake effectively on tarmac run-offs but not with gravel and there's a risk they can dig in and flip over.

Actually gravel traps are really bad for motorcycles and motorcyclists.  Much less damaging for both to slide in a stable way across smooth tarmac, and also much less likely to result in a fall if a rider does go off whilst still on two wheels.

stickyfiddle

Austria already has gravel. The kerbs are significantly wider than the cars and they're grippy.

They should make the kerbs narrower than the cars and put a 2m strip of something with way less grip beyond them (grass, gravel, a moat, etc) and the drivers won't go beyond the lines. Then you can have a nice big bit of tarmac to keep your bikers and track day guys happy. 

RandallFlagg

I've found the last few races to be quite boring, didn't even watch to the end yesterday, not sure if I'm going off F1 but need something to rekindle the spark.

Not sure how Netflix are going to make the next season of Drive To Survive interesting as there's not really much happening is there?

JEM

sinbaadi said:

Actually gravel traps are really bad for motorcycles and motorcyclists.  Much less damaging for both to slide in a stable way across smooth tarmac, and also much less likely to result in a fall if a rider does go off whilst still on two wheels.

I guess it must depend on the type if corner and the amount of space available for run off. As I mentioned Barcelona extended the gravel trap in the wake of Salom's accident and Spa also added gravel traps in order to get an FIM grade C license.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/spa-80million-euro-revamp-gravel-traps/4888499/ 

"In order to obtain the necessary FIM Grade C licence, the circuit has developed redesigned run-off areas, with gravel traps to be installed at five key corners: La Source, Raidillon, Blanchimont, Les Combes and Stavelot."

fretmeister

It's clearly time for a 30 cm ice 'moat' all around the track.

Majorscale

RandallFlagg said:

I've found the last few races to be quite boring, didn't even watch to the end yesterday, not sure if I'm going off F1 but need something to rekindle the spark.

Not sure how Netflix are going to make the next season of Drive To Survive interesting as there's not really much happening is there?

I've been feeling exactly the same. The only random element these days seems to be the way the FIA apply the rules...

stickyfiddle

In other news... 

https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/1675882423555608577

https://twitter.com/googlechrome/status/1675882791039320064

Have they got this car light enough that we might get a chrome McLaren for Silverstone...?? Gotta be better than the orange & black shitshow of the last 18 months

stickyfiddle

Well it's kind of a mess but it's still better than the regular livery. 

https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/1675911867640819717

sinbaadi

JEM said:

sinbaadi said:

Actually gravel traps are really bad for motorcycles and motorcyclists.  Much less damaging for both to slide in a stable way across smooth tarmac, and also much less likely to result in a fall if a rider does go off whilst still on two wheels.

I guess it must depend on the type if corner and the amount of space available for run off. As I mentioned Barcelona extended the gravel trap in the wake of Salom's accident and Spa also added gravel traps in order to get an FIM grade C license.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/spa-80million-euro-revamp-gravel-traps/4888499/ 

"In order to obtain the necessary FIM Grade C licence, the circuit has developed redesigned run-off areas, with gravel traps to be installed at five key corners: La Source, Raidillon, Blanchimont, Les Combes and Stavelot."

I think you're absolutely right, and they're probably a necessary evil where space is limited but they are quite brutal and it's easy to see why motorcycle racers often call for a change:

http://motogpnews.com/2023/03/16/is-it-time-to-ban-gravel-traps-in-motogp/

  

sinbaadi

Also I would recommend catching the highlights of the NASCAR race at the new Chicago Street circuit, for a change of pace.

Cols

JEM said:

sinbaadi said:

Actually gravel traps are really bad for motorcycles and motorcyclists.  Much less damaging for both to slide in a stable way across smooth tarmac, and also much less likely to result in a fall if a rider does go off whilst still on two wheels.

I guess it must depend on the type if corner and the amount of space available for run off. As I mentioned Barcelona extended the gravel trap in the wake of Salom's accident and Spa also added gravel traps in order to get an FIM grade C license.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/spa-80million-euro-revamp-gravel-traps/4888499/ 

"In order to obtain the necessary FIM Grade C licence, the circuit has developed redesigned run-off areas, with gravel traps to be installed at five key corners: La Source, Raidillon, Blanchimont, Les Combes and Stavelot."

Apparently there’s different types of gravel.

Motorcycle riders really hate the gravel traps in places like Portimao and Jerez where the gravel pieces are very large; apparently they’re very unyielding and are extremely painful when you land on something resembling a boulder.

Casey Stoner has spoken out against the replacement of gravel traps with asphalt runoff, as this really doesn’t slow a bouncing rider down at all before they hit the wall.  He’s specifically called out the Osterreichring as a track which needs gravel traps and doesn’t have them.

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/motorsport/motogp/stoner-hits-out-at-lack-of-gravel-traps-at-motogp-circuits/article8823074.ece

PearlsPreserve

Gravel has its place in MotoGP, it's just that it's place is way off the track as a means of slowing down a rider as they approach a barrier.  They absolutely should never, ever, be adjacent to the track border as is being suggested.  A bike taking a corner at 120+mph would only have to be 1foot wide and would have a catastrophic crash if it touched gravel.  That's the issue.

Cols

PearlsPreserve said:

Gravel has its place in MotoGP, it's just that its place is way off the track as a means of slowing down a rider as they approach a barrier.  They absolutely should never, ever, be adjacent to the track border as is being suggested.  A bike taking a corner at 120+mph would only have to be 1foot wide and would have a catastrophic crash if it touched gravel.  That's the issue.

Casey Stoner doesn’t seem to agree.

”Unfortunately some riders prefer it (asphalt runoff) because I know they feel they can push harder on a corner and they feel if they make a mistake they run on and go through or come straight directly back onto the track, it's a convenience, but it's not safe."

“ Looking at Austria and what I saw on television, I am concerned with the safety of that track. You see all the run-off areas painted so can you imagine crashing in the wet, touching the paint, you're not going to slow down before hitting the wall and this is something they need to pay attention to."

Boromedic

Cols said:

PearlsPreserve said:

Gravel has its place in MotoGP, it's just that its place is way off the track as a means of slowing down a rider as they approach a barrier.  They absolutely should never, ever, be adjacent to the track border as is being suggested.  A bike taking a corner at 120+mph would only have to be 1foot wide and would have a catastrophic crash if it touched gravel.  That's the issue.

Casey Stoner doesn’t seem to agree.

”Unfortunately some riders prefer it (asphalt runoff) because I know they feel they can push harder on a corner and they feel if they make a mistake they run on and go through or come straight directly back onto the track, it's a convenience, but it's not safe."

“ Looking at Austria and what I saw on television, I am concerned with the safety of that track. You see all the run-off areas painted so can you imagine crashing in the wet, touching the paint, you're not going to slow down before hitting the wall and this is something they need to pay attention to."

Yeah, but what does he know!

Cols

Boromedic said:

Casey Stoner doesn’t seem to agree.

”Unfortunately some riders prefer it (asphalt runoff) because I know they feel they can push harder on a corner and they feel if they make a mistake they run on and go through or come straight directly back onto the track, it's a convenience, but it's not safe."

“ Looking at Austria and what I saw on television, I am concerned with the safety of that track. You see all the run-off areas painted so can you imagine crashing in the wet, touching the paint, you're not going to slow down before hitting the wall and this is something they need to pay attention to."

Yeah, but what does he know!

Judging by this, he knows how far you’ll slide after coming off your bike unless you hit gravel.

https://youtu.be/DgnaFfbp4Hk 

Boromedic

Cols said:

Boromedic said:

Casey Stoner doesn’t seem to agree.

”Unfortunately some riders prefer it (asphalt runoff) because I know they feel they can push harder on a corner and they feel if they make a mistake they run on and go through or come straight directly back onto the track, it's a convenience, but it's not safe."

“ Looking at Austria and what I saw on television, I am concerned with the safety of that track. You see all the run-off areas painted so can you imagine crashing in the wet, touching the paint, you're not going to slow down before hitting the wall and this is something they need to pay attention to."

Yeah, but what does he know!

Judging by this, he knows how far you’ll slide after coming off your bike unless you hit gravel.

https://youtu.be/DgnaFfbp4Hk 

Ouch! And he walks away!!