The F1 thread

stickyfiddle

fretmeister said:

I haven't been to a race in person for years.

Before the new grandstands I used to sit on the grass at Copse and there was a big screen on the inside of the track so I could see what was happening.

I did get seats at Woodcote ones (previous layout) but that was boring even with a bit of a view of the complex. No overtaking there.

These days - a 3 day general pass is cheaper than just a race day ticket, but for a grandstand seat I think the cheapest race day was about £450. A seat at Beckets was nearly £700.

Add a bit of overpriced food and drink and that would be £2000 to 3000 for my family of 4. And I'm too old to sit on the grass all day now!

Not a chance in hell.

Yup. Abu Dhabi is benchmark for obvious reasons. Cheapest tickets are for "The Hill", which is the grassy bit in the middle. You can see a bit of turns 2/3/4/5 down to the hairpin, or you can sit on the other side facing the straight and see a big screen. But not both. Those are AED 1250 for early-bird (till the end of May...) which is about £265 for 3 days, then they go up to about £300 each.

Grandstands definitely get you a better view but start around £450 and the sky's the limit. And you can't get single-day tickets any more. Also they play offensively terrible Dutch EDM in the grandstands all the time the cars aren't on track which honestly I'd pay extra to not have to sit through. The Hill also gets you away from that, which is lovely...

Granted you get concert access as well but that's usually no more than 1 good one (this year is Maroon 5, Eminem and Muse, so 2/3 decent). The saving grace is that the concerts mean you can usually sell any day-tickets you don't want in the run up to it and claw a bit of money back. 

Honestly I only have tickets this year because I want to see Muse and I assume the championship will be done by then so the racing won't matter. 

Boromedic

^^I'd be pissed with Maroon 5 as well

Cols

fretmeister said:

Cols said:

So I reckon @boromedic is spot on, and that costly legal action has been threatened by Perez or his sponsors if he's dropped.

I'm not convinced.

I think it's far more likely to be pressure from Liberty about the Mexican GP ticket sales and with Checo currently being the only  driver from that part of the world etc. I reckon that if that race had happened already they would have dropped him.

I don't think the sponsors will have as much say simply because if RB don't get the constructors title the sponsors will be associated with the driver at fault. Some of his big sponsors would much prefer to be on a winning driver anyway. Nobody sees his personal sponsors as he's hardly ever on the podium.

There's $12Million difference between first and second in the constructors. Even if RB have to pay him $10m to sack him outright rather than demote him RB would still be up by $2m with the right person in that car.

Absolutely right about Liberty - the crowds at the Mexican Grand Prix clearly adore Perez and ticket sales would suffer if he were not there.  That said, Liberty get their fee from the organisers regardless of how many tickets are sold.  But there’s also the Austin and Las Vegas Grand Prix to worry about as well; both have sizable attendance from Perez’s fan base.

The sponsors are another matter.  Perez has a close personal link with Carlos Slim going back to his childhood.  That link brings the Telcel and Telmex sponsorship to Red Bull, and as their interests are exclusively for the Mexican market they wouldn’t be interested in a driver other than Perez, no matter how successful they were.

And Carlos Slim has deep pockets.  He’s worth over $100 billion - more then the whole Red Bull empire - so if he decided to pick a legal fight with Red Bull over his favourite driver being dumped he’s got the money to make it a protracted, expensive and embarrassing.

markr76

Cols said:

fretmeister said:

Cols said:

So I reckon @boromedic is spot on, and that costly legal action has been threatened by Perez or his sponsors if he's dropped.

I'm not convinced.

I think it's far more likely to be pressure from Liberty about the Mexican GP ticket sales and with Checo currently being the only  driver from that part of the world etc. I reckon that if that race had happened already they would have dropped him.

I don't think the sponsors will have as much say simply because if RB don't get the constructors title the sponsors will be associated with the driver at fault. Some of his big sponsors would much prefer to be on a winning driver anyway. Nobody sees his personal sponsors as he's hardly ever on the podium.

There's $12Million difference between first and second in the constructors. Even if RB have to pay him $10m to sack him outright rather than demote him RB would still be up by $2m with the right person in that car.

Absolutely right about Liberty - the crowds at the Mexican Grand Prix clearly adore Perez and ticket sales would suffer if he were not there.  That said, Liberty get their fee from the organisers regardless of how many tickets are sold.  But there’s also the Austin and Las Vegas Grand Prix to worry about as well; both have sizable attendance from Perez’s fan base.

The sponsors are another matter.  Perez has a close personal link with Carlos Slim going back to his childhood.  That link brings the Telcel and Telmex sponsorship to Red Bull, and as their interests are exclusively for the Mexican market they wouldn’t be interested in a driver other than Perez, no matter how successful they were.

And Carlos Slim has deep pockets.  He’s worth over $100 billion - more then the whole Red Bull empire - so if he decided to pick a legal fight with Red Bull over his favourite driver being dumped he’s got the money to make it a protracted, expensive and embarrassing.

I doubt Redbull will care what Liberty want. It’s probably more that changing a driver at this point in the season will rarely help much. Whoever was coming in would take time to get used to the car. So the results wouldn’t be any better. That’s with the free drivers they have available to them at the minute. 

If they did cut Checo now though they would face the wrath of the Mexican fans. Which could be a serious headache going to Mexico! 

Cols

markr76 said:

I doubt Redbull will care what Liberty want. It’s probably more that changing a driver at this point in the season will rarely help much. Whoever was coming in would take time to get used to the car. So the results wouldn’t be any better. That’s with the free drivers they have available to them at the minute. 

If they did cut Checo now though they would face the wrath of the Mexican fans. Which could be a serious headache going to Mexico! 

There is a precedent with the commercial rights holder intervening in driver decisions.  In the aftermath of Senna's death at Imola, Bernie Ecclestone was deeply concerned about a collapse in viewing figures with no World Champion on the grid.  There had been much talk about who might fill Ayrton's seat - Prost was clearly a non-starter, but Riccardo Patrese had been offered an opportunity to come out of retirement and was all lined up until he had a change of heart.

Instead, Ecclestone orchestrated a sensational part-time return to Williams for Nigel Mansell at a reputed $1 million per race, with the young David Coulthard filling in when there was a conflict with Mansell's Indy Car season.  I'm not sure if Bernie actually bankrolled the deal, or if he persuaded Renault to unbelt their wallet.

In the end, Nige's presence was hardly required as Damon Hill rose magnificently to the occasion in order to take the championship to the wire - and in my opinion, he should have won it.

Still, back to the present day.  There's an interesting rumour that there might be a 'young drivers only' sprint race in Abu Dhabi after the season finale, with only drivers who have a superlicence and have not competed in more than 2 Grand Prix being eligible.  That would certainly be pleasingly chaotic.

Young driver F1 race proposal revealed - The Race (the-race.com) 

fretmeister

That could be fun!

I used to love watching the Formula Renaults at Silverstone when they were a support race to the GP.

20 teenagers going 4 wide into Copse was always going to be entertaining!

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Random question - anyone ever been to see the Canadian Grand Prix? I've always wanted to go and see and GP abroad  (done Silverstone a few times now), and I've always fancied going to Canada. So I'm thinking why not kill two birds with one stone?!

Just wondering if Montreal is a good one to go to in terms of the race, facilities, trying to get accomodation etc.

Boromedic

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

Random question - anyone ever been to see the Canadian Grand Prix? I've always wanted to go and see and GP abroad  (done Silverstone a few times now), and I've always fancied going to Canada. So I'm thinking why not kill two birds with one stone?!

Just wondering if Montreal is a good one to go to in terms of the race, facilities, trying to get accomodation etc.

I'm curious too, it's either here or Spa for me, would be great if anyone has any info!

Cols

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

Random question - anyone ever been to see the Canadian Grand Prix? I've always wanted to go and see and GP abroad  (done Silverstone a few times now), and I've always fancied going to Canada. So I'm thinking why not kill two birds with one stone?!

Just wondering if Montreal is a good one to go to in terms of the race, facilities, trying to get accomodation etc.

My uncle went in the late 90s and said it was bloody brilliant - the hairpin is definitely the place to watch.  Great atmosphere.

He also (in his teenage years) went to the 1957 German Grand Prix, the lucky bastard.  He does know how to pick ‘em.

Cols

Rumours (to be taken with a pinch of salt) that Red Bull are considering running the early season spec car for Perez only, in an effort to give him a car which isn’t ultimately as fast, but may be more compliant.

Deliberately running two different specs must be a logistical nightmare in terms of parts, data comparison, setup and so on.  It’s a world away from Gasly’s time at Red Bull, where Marko publicly stated “We told Gasly that he should use the Verstappen setting.  He has to adapt it to his driving style.  He should concentrate on driving and not constantly tell Mr. Newey how to build the car for him. When he was lapped in Budapest, he wanted a different suspension.  He’s not an engineer. He was just running out of excuses.”

HAL9000

Boromedic said:

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

Random question - anyone ever been to see the Canadian Grand Prix? I've always wanted to go and see and GP abroad  (done Silverstone a few times now), and I've always fancied going to Canada. So I'm thinking why not kill two birds with one stone?!

Just wondering if Montreal is a good one to go to in terms of the race, facilities, trying to get accomodation etc.

I'm curious too, it's either here or Spa for me, would be great if anyone has any info!

I’ve been to Spa with my son some years back essentially because Le Shuttle plus GP tickets worked out cheaper than going to Silverstone. Amazing track and Eau Rouge in particular is more dramatic than the TV cameras make it appear - TV always makes things look flatter. Unfortunately being a longer track than Silverstone you see the cars less often, and you don’t see as much of the track. However if you wander around the circuit there are plenty of decent viewing areas. Spa is also a fairly easy drive from the Le Shuttle terminal in France.

We’ve also been to the Austrian GP some years back (we were holidaying in Austria so we’re travelling that way anyway). Again, tickets substantially cheaper than for Silverstone. Some years back but I don’t recall it being that interesting a race or circuit.

Humboldt

HAL9000 said:

Boromedic said:

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

Random question - anyone ever been to see the Canadian Grand Prix? I've always wanted to go and see and GP abroad  (done Silverstone a few times now), and I've always fancied going to Canada. So I'm thinking why not kill two birds with one stone?!

Just wondering if Montreal is a good one to go to in terms of the race, facilities, trying to get accomodation etc.

I'm curious too, it's either here or Spa for me, would be great if anyone has any info!

I’ve been to Spa with my son some years back essentially because Le Shuttle plus GP tickets worked out cheaper than going to Silverstone. Amazing track and Eau Rouge in particular is more dramatic than the TV cameras make it appear - TV always makes things look flatter. Unfortunately being a longer track than Silverstone you see the cars less often, and you don’t see as much of the track. However if you wander around the circuit there are plenty of decent viewing areas. Spa is also a fairly easy drive from the Le Shuttle terminal in France.

We’ve also been to the Austrian GP some years back (we were holidaying in Austria so we’re travelling that way anyway). Again, tickets substantially cheaper than for Silverstone. Some years back but I don’t recall it being that interesting a race or circuit.

This year was the first time that I can recall seeing a decent camera angle showing Eau Rouge in a better light. I've been to Spa a few times to watch classic racing and it comes as a shock the first time you see this section in real life, especially when stood right at the bottom.

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Doohan confirmed for Alpine next year. No surprises. Only a 1 year deal, though don't know how much of that is lack of confidence in Doohan, or lack of confidence in whether or not the team will have imploded by then!

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/13200742/jack-doohan-australian-driver-to-replace-esteban-ocon-at-alpine-for-2025-f1-season

Looking forward to the race weekend after the break, I've missed it! Playing at a festival on Sunday afternoon unfortunately, so won't be able to watch live. 

Cols

Quite a few fresh new faces then.  Bearman at Haas, Doohan at Alpine and, if rumours are to be believed, Antonelli at Mercedes.  And with the RB and Audi seats still to be filled, still potential for more of the old guard to bow out in favour of some more rookies.

stickyfiddle

Good for Doohan and the sport overall to get some more new faces in. 

And Marko says Lawson will be in one of their 4 cars next year, which probably means they'll keep the current 4 and Lawson will get stiffed again...  

TimmyO

Fun fact: all of us here are closer to Pérez in world championship points than Pérez is to Verstappen… 

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Looks treacherous out there, and a nasty looking crash for Sargeant, good that he's OK. He seems like a nice enough guy, but I can't understand for the life of me why Williams gave him that seat this year. Rookie mistake after rookie mistake, and he doesn't have the excuse of being a rookie any more! I wonder how much he's cost them in terms of repair bills in the past 18 months?

Weather is predicted to be stormy again for qualifying - could be a great one!

skullfunkerry

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

Looks treacherous out there, and a nasty looking crash for Sargeant, good that he's OK. He seems like a nice enough guy, but I can't understand for the life of me why Williams gave him that seat this year. Rookie mistake after rookie mistake, and he doesn't have the excuse of being a rookie any more! I wonder how much he's cost them in terms of repair bills in the past 18 months?

Weather is predicted to be stormy again for qualifying - could be a great one!

Totally agree about Sargeant, he does seem like a decent bloke, but it just feels like he's out of his depth doesn't it?
I was surprised they gave him another year, too.

Cols

There weren’t really any obvious decent replacements this season for Sargeant.  Along with the fact that he had been showing some promise at the end of last season, he comes with a lot of sponsorship attached.

He hasn’t really looked the part this year compared to Albon.  But most people are unaware that he’s usually running the old spec compared to Alex, who has first call on the latest bits as well as enough new spares in case of an incident.  

Logan was actually running the new spec today when he binned it, but may not for qualifying as Albon is prioritised.  Asked whether Williams has enough parts to send Sargeant back out running the same spec that he had been running at the time of the crash, James Vowles said: “Yes is the answer, but actually, there’s a limited amount. So, if something happens now to the other car, you need to make sure, in parc ferme, you have enough spares, so that’s more what I want to evaluate now – can we service both cars to a sufficient standard?”

sweepy

Looks as though Max got away with crossing the pit exit white line !, F1 really doesn’t help itself does it ?