Titanic tourist submersible gone missing

boogieman

munckee said:

Just been on the news there is a special  underwater sub which has been down and mapped the titanic, its leaving now from channel islands today which will take 60 hours to reach the area.

Would have been great 3 days ago!

Apparently it’s been ready to leave since Monday but has been held up for lack of “permissions”. You would’ve thought those could have been waived, given the circumstances. 

Snags

boogieman said:

munckee said:

Just been on the news there is a special  underwater sub which has been down and mapped the titanic, its leaving now from channel islands today which will take 60 hours to reach the area.

Would have been great 3 days ago!

Apparently it’s been ready to leave since Monday but has been held up for lack of “permissions”. You would’ve thought those could have been waived, given the circumstances. 

Although, depending on what those permissions constitute, it could also be argued that a failure to adhere to sensible, triple-checked, agreed and thought-through procedures is what got Titan and its passengers in the shit in the first place ...

Creed_Clicks

100s dead in the Med, and it is yesterday's news already.

goldtop

Snags said:

boogieman said:

munckee said:

Just been on the news there is a special  underwater sub which has been down and mapped the titanic, its leaving now from channel islands today which will take 60 hours to reach the area.

Would have been great 3 days ago!

Apparently it’s been ready to leave since Monday but has been held up for lack of “permissions”. You would’ve thought those could have been waived, given the circumstances. 

Although, depending on what those permissions constitute, it could also be argued that a failure to adhere to sensible, triple-checked, agreed and thought-through procedures is what got Titan and its passengers in the shit in the first place ...

Agreed. That "apparently" is the sort of weasel word that journalists use when the editor tells them to stop just reporting the known facts and come up with an angle to make readers angry.

There's a huge amount of technical stuff that isn't being covered - because it's complicated. So journalists reach for BS to extend the story clicks.

And @Creed_Clicks is right - such YOLO millionaire stories are (sadly) sexier than faceless and penniless migrants on over-crowded boats.

maharg101

skullfunkerry said:

This whole thing is just awful. I don't know enough about any of it to comment really; but naming the sub "Titan" really feels like tempting fate, doesn't it?

Perhaps the next one to go down (if anyone was daft enough) should be called "Tit".

Hope must be running very thin for them now. Fingers crossed for a good outcome.

Kittyfrisk

goldtop said:

Snags said:

boogieman said:

munckee said:

Just been on the news there is a special  underwater sub which has been down and mapped the titanic, its leaving now from channel islands today which will take 60 hours to reach the area.

Would have been great 3 days ago!

Apparently it’s been ready to leave since Monday but has been held up for lack of “permissions”. You would’ve thought those could have been waived, given the circumstances. 

Although, depending on what those permissions constitute, it could also be argued that a failure to adhere to sensible, triple-checked, agreed and thought-through procedures is what got Titan and its passengers in the shit in the first place ...

Agreed. That "apparently" is the sort of weasel word that journalists use when the editor tells them to stop just reporting the known facts and come up with an angle to make readers angry.

There's a huge amount of technical stuff that isn't being covered - because it's complicated. So journalists reach for BS to extend the story clicks.

And @Creed_Clicks is right - such YOLO millionaire stories are (sadly) sexier than faceless and penniless migrants on over-crowded boats.

Or "apparently" is used by a journalist or editor when there is some uncertainty about facts, to reduce the risk of criticism or litigation for false reporting?

JEM

Sassafras said:

I haven't got much sympathy for people who deliberately take unnecessary insane risks.
The Darwin Awards were created for such situations.
Their little jaunt hasn't benefited mankind in any way.

This is the second time the Darwin Awards have been mentioned in this thread. Personally I've always found them to be particularly distasteful, revelling in the untimely deaths of others.

I'd also point out that at least half the occupants of the submersible have children (only one of which is also on board) so they wouldn't be eligible for that unpleasant accolade anyway.

Gilly

JEM said:

I'd also point out that at least half the occupants of the submersible have children 

Which makes their actions seem all the more irresponsible. 

BillDL

The paradox here is that if the sub had reached the wreck and returned with outstanding pictures and intriguing eyewitness testimonies the owner, organisers, crew and passengers would be hailed as intrepid and brave expeditioners and any known poor safety protocols and apparent lack of contingency plans would have been largely overlooked.  When something goes wrong that results in tragic deaths (I hope not but it seems inevitable), however, they are all regarded as being foolhardy and reckless morons.

Sassafras

JEM said:

Sassafras said:

I haven't got much sympathy for people who deliberately take unnecessary insane risks.
The Darwin Awards were created for such situations.
Their little jaunt hasn't benefited mankind in any way.

This is the second time the Darwin Awards have been mentioned in this thread. Personally I've always found them to be particularly distasteful, revelling in the untimely deaths of others.

I'd also point out that at least half the occupants of the submersible have children (only one of which is also on board) so they wouldn't be eligible for that unpleasant accolade anyway.

I'd hardly call it "revelling".
I don't want people to die through their own stupidity but I won't pretend to be upset by it.
if it's their choice then so be it.
At least they died doing what they loved.

p90fool

BillDL said:

The paradox here is that if the sub had reached the wreck and returned with outstanding pictures and intriguing eyewitness testimonies the owner, organisers, crew and passengers would be hailed as intrepid and brave expeditioners and any known poor safety protocols and apparent lack of contingency plans would have been largely overlooked.  When something goes wrong that results in tragic deaths (I hope not but it seems inevitable), however, they are all regarded as being foolhardy and reckless morons.

That was never an option though, they have a tiny porthole and really crappy lights.
It was nothing to do with adding to the world's knowledge base and everything to do with "Guess where I went on holiday". 

Haych

Sassafras said:

I'd hardly call it "revelling".
I don't want people to die through their own stupidity but I won't pretend to be upset by it.
if it's their choice then so be it.
At least they died doing what they loved.

Breathing is over-rated anyway.

I think the comparison to ascending Everest has already been mentioned before in the thread, and it's a valid comparison.

It's dangerous and the chances of rescue should you get into trouble are slim to none.

I think it would be a far easier task to rescue a stranded climber on Everest in the death zone than it would be to find and rescue this sub, but it's rarely done.

People know this and still queue up (quite literally recently, I believe) to have a go at climbing the mountain.

And yet, it seems like all stops are being pulled out to do find and rescue the sub and its occupants.

So yeah, people make their choice presumably in full awareness of the fact they may not come back, although I expect the bravado of the situation makes them believe "it won't happen to me".

We pretend things only happen to strangers.

ICBM

skullfunkerry said:

This whole thing is just awful. I don't know enough about any of it to comment really; but naming the sub "Titan" really feels like tempting fate, doesn't it?

If you don’t know about this already…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wreck_of_the_Titan:_Or,_Futility

Haych

ICBM said:

skullfunkerry said:

This whole thing is just awful. I don't know enough about any of it to comment really; but naming the sub "Titan" really feels like tempting fate, doesn't it?

If you don’t know about this already…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wreck_of_the_Titan:_Or,_Futility

That's spooky!

JEM

Sassafras said:

I'd hardly call it "revelling".
I don't want people to die through their own stupidity but I won't pretend to be upset by it.
if it's their choice then so be it.
At least they died doing what they loved.

I wasn't suggesting individual posters were revelling in this particular situation but that the Darwin Awards seem to be based on doing so.

JEM

Gilly said:

JEM said:

I'd also point out that at least half the occupants of the submersible have children 

Which makes their actions seem all the more irresponsible. 

Maybe so, I was just pointing out that meant they can't have "removed themselves from the gene pool" as per the Darwin Awards.

maharg101

Mother in law has just announced, with a straight face, that Stockton Rush holds the Guinness world record for the longest time underwater. Obviously a misquote from her reading about the depth record in the papers. Sorry, but sick puppy that I am, I laughed like a drain. 

Positive news for these people please!

Hurling_Fruitmig

BillDL said:

The paradox here is that if the sub had reached the wreck and returned with outstanding pictures and intriguing eyewitness testimonies the owner, organisers, crew and passengers would be hailed as intrepid and brave expeditioners and any known poor safety protocols and apparent lack of contingency plans would have been largely overlooked.  When something goes wrong that results in tragic deaths (I hope not but it seems inevitable), however, they are all regarded as being foolhardy and reckless morons.

The fact that the sub has been there and back several times previously makes it a great example of how just because something that looks fairly ropey hasn't gone wrong before doesn't mean it won't in future. This should be used as an example of why people who like to use phrases like 'health and safety gone mad' should be punted in the plums.

VimFuego

Haych said:

Sassafras said:

I'd hardly call it "revelling".
I don't want people to die through their own stupidity but I won't pretend to be upset by it.
if it's their choice then so be it.
At least they died doing what they loved.

Breathing is over-rated anyway.

I think the comparison to ascending Everest has already been mentioned before in the thread, and it's a valid comparison.

It's dangerous and the chances of rescue should you get into trouble are slim to none.

I think it would be a far easier task to rescue a stranded climber on Everest in the death zone than it would be to find and rescue this sub, but it's rarely done.

People know this and still queue up (quite literally recently, I believe) to have a go at climbing the mountain.

And yet, it seems like all stops are being pulled out to do find and rescue the sub and its occupants.

So yeah, people make their choice presumably in full awareness of the fact they may not come back, although I expect the bravado of the situation makes them believe "it won't happen to me".

We pretend things only happen to strangers.

at least those climbing everest are putting in some effort, despite the enormous contribution from the sherpa's and porters, they still have to haul themselves up that mountain. Those people in the sub were just passengers along for the ride, the only effort they put in was handing over a credit card. And as said above, they wouldn't even have been able to see anything, it was all just so they could say they'd done it. 

Haych

VimFuego said:

Haych said:

Sassafras said:

I'd hardly call it "revelling".
I don't want people to die through their own stupidity but I won't pretend to be upset by it.
if it's their choice then so be it.
At least they died doing what they loved.

Breathing is over-rated anyway.

I think the comparison to ascending Everest has already been mentioned before in the thread, and it's a valid comparison.

It's dangerous and the chances of rescue should you get into trouble are slim to none.

I think it would be a far easier task to rescue a stranded climber on Everest in the death zone than it would be to find and rescue this sub, but it's rarely done.

People know this and still queue up (quite literally recently, I believe) to have a go at climbing the mountain.

And yet, it seems like all stops are being pulled out to do find and rescue the sub and its occupants.

So yeah, people make their choice presumably in full awareness of the fact they may not come back, although I expect the bravado of the situation makes them believe "it won't happen to me".

We pretend things only happen to strangers.

at least those climbing everest are putting in some effort, despite the enormous contribution from the sherpa's and porters, they still have to haul themselves up that mountain. Those people in the sub were just passengers along for the ride, the only effort they put in was handing over a credit card. And as said above, they wouldn't even have been able to see anything, it was all just so they could say they'd done it. 

Fair and salient point, Vim.