UKIP have an MP

p90fool

chillidoggy said:

Try living in Margate.

Why, because it's full of foreigners?

I've lived in four different "foreign" countries, as well as almost totally Asian communities in the UK. The percentage of nice people/arseholes seems to be a constant wherever I go.

What makes all these "other" people a threat to you? I've spent enough time in Kent to have known quite a few wankers who were born there, what is it about people who were not born there that makes them inherently inferior to those that were?

I'm not singling you out btw, I'm just intrigued, because despite a growing up in an old-school non-liberal military family I've only ever judged the person standing in front of me as an individual.

I understand the whole South Coast immigration thing I really do, but I see a bunch of humans behaving in a certain way because of various socio-economic influences, not just "fucking Poles" or whatever, that's just lazy.

I've travelled extensively for work and been resented for it so I've seen the other side, but even before that I always just found people interesting, especially those from places I've never been.

That for me is why I personally hate UKIP, not because they're hopeless clowns who'll never wield any real power anyway, but because they deliberately and shamelessly appeal to the lowest and laziest human instincts.

Phil_aka_Pip

UnclePsychosis said:

At some point people have to realise that you have to vote for what you want, not what you don't want. British politics would be so much better if people stopped tactical voting and started actually engaging with parties who genuinely represent their hopes and beliefs.

Choosing who to vote for because "I don't want the Tories" is ultimately completely self defeating. You're never going to be happy.

Politics can be different. Just look at Scotland - the big three are running scared and no UKIP in sight.

I've lost count of the number of people who've told me "I would vote Green but it's just a waste". Maybe if you all actually vote for who you really want then they'd actually have a chance?

Hey, something UP and I actually agree on. Yay!

chillidoggy

p90, I know you're not singling me out old chap!

But here's the thing: when all the people in the street I live are frightened to walk down their high street, that's a real concern. Muggings, burglaries, car-crime, it's all increased hugely, and demonstratively since the eastern Europeans arrived in droves. I know this because my wife has been the local Neighbourhood Watch co-ordinator for many years.

It wasn't like that a few years ago, this was a nice, safe environment, the local residents are extremely worried, and they hate the shit the immigrants make of the place. They don't recycle, they can't even be bothered to put rubbish in bags, or bins, they literally throw their rubbish out of the windows onto the street. And the local council has to come round twice a day to collect it. Who pays for that? The residents, and they're pissed off with it when they can't get their own refuse collected without some twat sticking a 'your bin is contaminated' sticker on it. Do we have local crims? Yes, of course, but the problems have multiplied over the years.

As it happens, no-one I know, or talk to, says anything different. I've overheard the same thing time and time again when in pubs or ressies. Successive governments have done nothing to act on people's fears or concerns about the subject. That's precisely why UKIP has it's first MP, and is likely to get even more. Politics are subjective, but what I see here is the assumption that other people are being labelled as racist or are somehow stupid because they don't feel the same way as you do.

Will I vote for Nigel Farage? I don't know yet, I will make that decision when the time comes, because I don't have any particular political allegiances but I am absolutely convinced that he will win the south Thanet seat, and it will be because of the situation here.

Drew_TNBD

I understand that not all immigrants are criminals, and they're not all a burden, and they're not all a drain on our resources.

What I don't understand is this insistence that *none* of them are criminals and *none* of them are a burden, and that *none* of them are a drain on our resources.

I appreciate open borders. I appreciate being open minded and being able to embrace new cultures and new ideas. But there is a limit. I don't understand why there has to be this black and white choice. What happened to nuance?

ICBM

UnclePsychosis said:

Politics can be different. Just look at Scotland - the big three are running scared and no UKIP in sight.

But that's because there is a genuine alternative, who have a track record of running councils and now the Scottish government successfully over many years. The SNP are a real party of administration, with real, thought-out policies on every matter and the experience of having to deliver them. (I don't agree with all of them either.) And because Scotland has Proportional Representation.

I agree with Drew about many of the policies of the Greens being naive at best and dangerous at worst, but others are more interesting and I would consider voting for them *provided* they have no chance of forming a full government - which of course they don't - they bring something completely different to the table and it's always worth listening to different ideas even if you then rule them out. Unlike the big three parties who are almost indistinguishable on many issues. (For example, you can't vote for a major party which would decommission Trident, if you believe that's a good idea.)

The problem with voting for what you want and not against what you don't want is that under our archaic Westminster voting system it almost always guarantees that most people get what they don't want - since a majority (of seats) government is almost always voted in by a minority of the vote - the current coalition possibly excepted since the combined Tory and Lib Dem vote was a majority. (Although you won't hear many Lib Dems shouting about that now!) Even under the form of PR we have in Scotland, the SNP majority government wasn't actually voted for by a majority of the voters, quite.

So if you want to make tactical voting unnecessary, first you have to fix the electoral system... and Cameron kicked that into the long grass by offering the worst alternative as the option - because the two big parties think that it's better to be in unrestricted power some of the time than in restricted power all of the time. They both think they can change the political landscape so much while they're in power that the other lot will not be able to reverse it all - and that has usually proved to be the case, unfortunately.

Evilmags

I've been out on the piss with Farage. He was quite good company and very funny. Carswell is one of the brighter and more liberal tories, with some excellent columns to read.

Farage is not a racist, and that accusation is a baseless labour smear.

I would vote to leave the EU, and I live in Europe and married to a Spaniard.

Evilmags

The costs of being in the EU are vastly higher than leaving. Switzerland and Norway hardly suffer from being outside it.

Fortheloveofguitar

I don't believe UKIP are a racist party and that card is played all to easily these days. It's getting fucking boring now.

I also don't believe that wanting to control immigration levels is also nasty or discriminating. It's common sense.

We have an open door policy on EU countries but are already restricting others from outside the EU, from India etc.

We are happy to make it difficult for skilled people from outside the EU to come here and offer us something useful but the government is quite happy to fund people that are just here for a jolly alongside organised crime etc.

I am not anti immigration I believe everyone that wants to put something into this country and make something of themselves should have the right to do that. Just as I would like to feel welcome should I ever want to shack up in Germany etc. But it has got out of control.

I have personally seen one of my businesses affected by foreign workers coming into my town and undercutting myself and the competition. Working for rates of pay that I was charging nearly ten years ago. When fuel was still under a pound a litre etc etc

Add to that the organised crime in my town alone has gone mental with Eastern European prostitutes all over town. This has also bought about people trafficking with numerous busts of organised gangs.

I know this is also a problem with our own people but I'm talking about the extra load

Fortheloveofguitar

The HIV comment was, as usual taken out of context completely by the propaganda machine that is the BBC and more.

In reality why should 'New' foreign settlers with 'any' serious illness be aloud to jump the queue for NHS treatment.

It's not that we don't want people with HIV or Aids etc etc coming here in the slightest but look out, here comes the discrimination card again.

People should read the full original articles in print or audio form, from which people like the BBC are quoting from before passing judgement.

I've seen various videos on YouTube from Nigel Farage public meetings around the country whereby countless of ill informed muppets have arrived , pitchfork in hand ready to slay the guy based on bullshit that they've read in the Sun or from the beeb.

They had a very different view of him by the end of it.

IanSavage

Sambostar said:

Yeah but if I vote Green, I may as well throw my vote away and the Tories will get in again.

Also if you think Farage will cripple the UK economy, or try and take us back to the 1950's then you obviously the type who believed every word of Nick Clegg's and David Cameron's pre election speech.

Tell me, what did Clegg do that was in his manifesto?  In fact where is he these days?

£10000 personal allowance on income tax, Pupil Premium in schools (which I actually see at work every day), scrapping ID cards, removing innocent peoples' DNA from the national DNA database, free schools meals...those are just off the top of my head. Don't believe the blue-and-red press; I'm far from a died-in-the-wool Lib Dem, but they've done a lot more good in government than they're given credit for. 

ICBM

But have unfortunately blown it - and their chances of getting re-elected for a political generation - with just a few highly visible and unnecessary renegations on manifesto promises, as well as some of them behaving like politicians who had been in power for a lifetime rather than their first time.

suspiciousminds

In some ways i hope a party like ukip would get elected just to give the other parties a right kick up the backside.
And What i hate is the fact that when people have a strong opinion on immigration the "racism" card gets played.
As a working brit, the two biggest issues for me are immigration and benefits.
I have a girl who works for 15 hours a week and could regularly work full time on a full time contract but refuses to do an hour extra because she lives at home with her mom and dad who are on benefits and any increase would jeopardise their benefits, yet at least twice a week i see them buying booze pissed??
Boils my piss tbh.
Increase minimum wage to get people working, cap benefits so that people dont see the benefits route as a viable option - and support low paid workers, surely then immigration from migrant workers wont be as big an issue?
I regularly see people on benefits far far better off than me and my missus - wtf?
Country has gone to the dogs imo.

Fretwired

Ukip are on course to get 25 MPs and wipe out the Tories unless the SNP can torpedo Labour in Scotland.

ICBM said:

But have unfortunately blown it - and their chances of getting re-elected for a political generation - with just a few highly visible and unnecessary renegations on manifesto promises, as well as some of them behaving like politicians who had been in power for a lifetime rather than their first time.

The trouble with not being in power is you don't get to look at the books so when the coalition came into power they found that the finances were far worse than there thought. Factor in the Eurozone crisis and it' time for plan B. We actually have stable government in the UK - politicians may not always do what you think they ought to do but running a country is pretty hard. UK government functions on a committee-based system which works well - all the committees are cross party and it's a shock to many to see Labour, |Tory and LibDem MPs getting on and making recommendations and decisions.

My quote of the weekend from Clacton .. "I voted Ukip as the Tory MP hadn't done anything for the area" .. says it all really.

Evilmags

I suspect the SNP are going to muller labour up north. And how could anyone seriously put Milliband in downing street. The guy is a snivelling worm.

Jalapeno

As a taxi driver told me last week - he stabbed his own brother in the back, so who can trust him ?

guitarfishbay

Fretwired said:

My quote of the weekend from Clacton .. "I voted Ukip as the Tory MP hadn't done anything for the area" .. says it all really.

)

Hopefully not too representative but not surprising that there was at least one.

ICBM

Evilmags said:

I suspect the SNP are going to muller labour up north.

I certainly hope so.

Not to try to re-run the referendum, but to make sure Scotland has a strong representation in Westminster when it comes to holding the London parties to account on their promises. If it has a side effect of stopping Labour gaining a majority I don't see that as a bad thing either.

Fretwired

ICBM said:

Evilmags said:

I suspect the SNP are going to muller labour up north.

I certainly hope so.

Not to try to re-run the referendum, but to make sure Scotland has a strong representation in Westminster when it comes to holding the London parties to account on their promises. If it has a side effect of stopping Labour gaining a majority I don't see that as a bad thing either.

Cameron's dangling carrots to ensure the SNP do well ... home rule, tax raising and oil money for supporting the Tory plan for English only votes on English matters at Westminster. The SNP have nothing to fear from the Tories in Scotland and would love the chance to sink Labour and the Lib Dems.

Evilmags

Labour only represent public sector workers and benefits claimants. This is why UKIP are starting to make inroads into their vote. Miliband is so inept it beggars belief. Of course labour is the party with most to lose out of a Scottish settlement....

frankus

I'll be honest I wouldn't be so wary of UKIP if it wasn't for the people who act as evangelists and apologists..

Okay I'd only be slightly less worried, but it'd be the difference between "this guy is the next Hitler" and "this guy is Jeremy Clarkson with political aspirations"...

I think it's time we thinned down Parliament have fewer MPs and a yearly cull of the house of lords.. - it'd probably replace the bi-annual riots we have and maybe appease the hunting lobby too.