SG types that do not neck dive?

roberty

I have a nice 2004 SG Standard and I would sell it before the Rev BB

Fingers657

A decent strap takes care of any guitars neck dive.

JohnS37

Bigsby said:

JohnS37 said:

Supportact said:

Get one with a bigsby! It will balance it out, and you will be cool. 

Yup.  I had one, Chinese copy but good, with a Bigsby and the weight of the vib cancelled any tendency to neck dive.  I did move it on, but I can’t remember why.

How bad was the neck dive before you fitted the Bigsby?  I fitted a B3 to the white Standard in the photo below. Didn't change the neck dive at all, not in the slightest. But moving the rear strap button pretty much eliminated it. Removing the Tronical tuner and replacing with lighter weight machine heads would also have worked, but unlike most people I didn't want to do that.  



FWIW, as an experiment, I removed one Grover from an SG once and found it dramatically reduced the neck dive; you only have to make a small change at the headstock to make a big difference, (basic physics). I then bought a set of Ratio tuners that weighed the same as 5 Grovers (the reason for the experiment). A Bigsby doesn't weigh that much, and it's in the wrong place to make a big difference to the balance (between he strap buttons).

Everything related to SGs and neck dive seems to come with a lot of YMMV.

The trem was fitted when I acquired the SG, so I don’t know if cured a neck dive or if it had never had one.  It was the type that screws directly to the front face of the guitar - I have another guitar with one of these and they have a significant weight.

TTBZ

Another option could be the PRS Vela? It's their best looking guitar (imo) and the ones I've played have been very comfortable to play, they're really light. Haven't tried one on a strap but it doesn't look like it would dive. I'm sure with a decent PAF style humbucker in the bridge it'd sound pretty close too, after all it's a thin(ish) mahogany body, hardtail, scale length is close enough etc. I do still sometimes think about sacking off my SG for one but they're quite expensive these days!

KevS

My probably slightly different opinion,,but it is proper experience of ownership..

I have 4 Guild Electrics,,3. 2013 - 2021 Newark Street S100's..

I also owned an early/mid 1970's S100..It seems to have 1972 pots but a 1974 serial number..
It sounded fantastic,,but had a 20 inch board caber but a really arched bridge..Think 9.5 camber..
So this meant notes squeezed sharp..Not good..Some are now up for sale for North of £3'000..
The Korean Newark Street S100's are better physically matched designs,although the earlier Korean Samick Factory made S100's are heavier in weight..Not too bad feeling when strapped on standing up though..

I also own a a 2022 Bluesbird..

World Music produced Korean Guild S 100 Polaras..They are under 7 lbs and not neck heavy..
I have Two and also a more Les Paul Shaped Bluesbird built in the same factory..

I love these guitars..So does my back and heart..

I have a 2013 Ex Samick Factory made S100,this is around 8 2/3 lbs..
It has LB 1 mini buckers via the HB 1's in the later S100's...
I actually prefer the LB 1's but think the heavier weight also gives the earlier S100 more balls..
The LB 1's are Alnico V,,the HB 1's Alnico II..I think the HB 1 Bridge pickup lacks bass end..

The Bluesbird comes with a Seymour Duncan JB as Standard..
The guitar may not have the balls of a full fat 10lb Les Paul,but it still has enough...
My heaviest Les Paul is this weight has a JB in the bridge also,but that is going to change,well it is already happening....
That Les Paul has always had an overly piercing treble,but my Alnico IV Bare Knuckle Mule is going in there,but with a .033 or .047 microfarad capacitor..
The Bluesbird sounds fantastic,so my Seymour JB's are going into the bridge positions of the World Music Newark Street S100's..This work is going on just now..The HB 1's to me lack low end,they are more jangly than a PAF.,the bridge pickup,Meh..The early 70's HB 1 sounded fantastic and it had more power...
The Bluesbird sounds like an ES335 or Gibson Centre blocked ES series..

Guild now produce the S100 Deluxe I think made in China..,,they have HB 2 Humbuckers which are the same size as PAF dimensions I believe..
So they are an easier straight pickup change..Not made in Korea..The dark grey metallic I think  Canyon Dusk one looks great..
I already have 3 S100's though..I don't need it.

They also make the Kim Thayil S100..I just ended up with my first vintage early 70's S100,,then found out he used one..

The S100 does look a bit bigger than the SG,,I prefer this as I dwarf an SG..
As I say elsewhere..It is the Fat Bastard's SG,,talking about myself here...

I think there is still a Cherry Newark Street Korean World Music S100 in Merchant City Music in Glasgow..
If it's anything like my ones of this era of this model..With a pickup change I would take it rather than a Gibson SG in a second..

That is me though..I realise the SG has a big following..I think the S100 is designed to balance better than the SG and it does..
I really like the look,especially my black one..I also have a white and a cherry..
Plus the Black Bluesbird,,a bit Les Paul Custom looking with it's "Chesterfield" Logo headstock..

I think this is the remaining new one in the UK..I asked about weight before I ordered mine from there..

https://reverb.com/uk/p/guild-newark-st-collection-s-100-polara?hfid=44692908&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=18354914807&utm_content=campaignid=18354914807_adgroupid=_productpartitionid==merchantid=109375122_productid=44692908_keyword=_device=c_adposition=_matchtype=_creative=&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA84CvBhCaARIsAMkAvkIkwZGzbLoMSCwgay40tssqK3i9WAOfLiyX-Nk-1YRPvzebC-1I8g8aAmdQEALw_wcB

The Chinese Deluxe have a proper 4 Knob layout and a tailpiece..I'ver never played or handled one..
https://www.thomann.de/gb/guild_polara_deluxe_canyon_dusk.htm?glp=1&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA84CvBhCaARIsAMkAvkJgU7d-MzU6rcU77F5t5iGGAtELzV3Hs5JPNWlEAldeQs7tRSxmaQoaAr42EALw_wcB

Then the Kim Thayil S100..  
https://www.guitar.co.uk/guild-polara-kim-thayil-black?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA84CvBhCaARIsAMkAvkIB55nYnxl6N-SW3SZkdMefzcolaVhfc_p4RzkSFSjvyN3aahsHA-UaArh8EALw_wcB

Then the very recent stripped down 2 knob Austerity Version..
https://www.thomann.de/gb/guild_polara_blue_steel.htm

Tall_martin

Tall_martin said:

Is it's sg a likes-I love my PRS Mira X. No neck dive for me. Not mine, but there is a similar one on eBay at the moment.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155949742825?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=6eggpscVQGW&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=a9M6NJdMTVq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

@Philly_Q

My Mira X has both neck dive and what I can best describe as "guitar rotate" - as the headstock heads floorwards, the neck sort of pulls around like it's trying to hide behind me, and the bridge end of the body pulls forward, away from me. I've experienced similar with Thinline Teles. The Mira X does weigh about 5 pounds though, and although I like light guitars it's just too light.

Maybe all the Mira X's are their own thing? 

I changed the pickups to bare knuckle, but I can't imagine that make any difference. The rest of mine seems to be stock, but it's from 2009 and was second hand to me. Maybe some bits have been changed along the way?

I've always used levy leather straps, maybe that's a difference. I don't think they are particular grippy, but they are grippier than the nylon seatbelt type one I started out with as a kid.

Philly_Q

Tall_martin said:

Maybe all the Mira X's are their own thing? 

I changed the pickups to bare knuckle, but I can't imagine that make any difference. The rest of mine seems to be stock, but it's from 2009 and was second hand to me. Maybe some bits have been changed along the way?

I've always used levy leather straps, maybe that's a difference. I don't think they are particular grippy, but they are grippier than the nylon seatbelt type one I started out with as a kid.

I doubt much has been changed.  Mine's 2009 as well, and they only made them for a short time.  Presumably you've still got the PRS wraptail bridge, and they always came with Gotoh Kluson-style tuners, so the headstock's about as light as it can be.  That's all there is in terms of hardware!

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that you are Tall, Martin, and I am Not Tall.  Perhaps just having it on a long strap - on a long body - makes a difference in some way. 

Creed_Clicks

Schecter make an SG type as well. Screw on neck, string through body. Looks cool. Schecter Demon S II

noisepolluter

I saw a doom folk band last night. One of the guitarists was playing an ebony SG standard. It was epic. If he was suffering from the effects of neck dive he masked it well. 

Creed_Clicks

noisepolluter said:

I saw a doom folk band last night. 

noisepolluter

Creed_Clicks said:

noisepolluter said:

I saw a doom folk band last night. 

I did not hitherto know it was a thing. Now I do know, I am here for it. 

Creed_Clicks

noisepolluter said:

Creed_Clicks said:

noisepolluter said:

I saw a doom folk band last night. 

I did not hitherto know it was a thing. Now I do know, I am here for it. 

Was the SG the latest tribute model?

noisepolluter

Creed_Clicks said:

noisepolluter said:

Creed_Clicks said:

noisepolluter said:

I saw a doom folk band last night. 

I did not hitherto know it was a thing. Now I do know, I am here for it. 

Was the SG the latest tribute model?

I think it was a full-on batwing standard from what I could see. Tulip tuners though so pre 2019

kentuckyklira

Supportact said:

Get one with a bigsby! It will balance it out, and you will be cool. 

Right, my SG Deluxe with 3 humbuckers and a Bigsby doesn´t neck-dive. But, there will be people who don´t consider it a "real" SG.

InactiveX

My Gibson SG doesn't dive either, I think the scale of the problem may be very much exaggerated.

One more thing: get an SG!

Philly_Q

InactiveX said:

My Gibson SG doesn't dive either, I think the scale of the problem may be very much exaggerated.

It's something which is very common, and applies specifically to SGs and not most other well-known guitar models.  There's also that thing about SG necks feeling "too far to the left".

But other models have their own peculiarities, like Strat volume knobs being in the "wrong" place, the Tele switch being too close to the volume knob, or Les Pauls being heavy...

I think what is exaggerated is the idea that these issues somehow make SGs unplayable... people just adapt.

AK99

Mike58 said:

Imagine being a lefty SG in the southern hemisphere, near a lay line convergence….. the guitar would be all over the place!!

Maybe that's why it's impossible to keep the buggers in tune too

Creed_Clicks

One thing I find odd with some SGs, is how the neck pickup looks like it has been pushed down into the body, like it's an accident.

noisepolluter

While I was gearing up to get mine I was ruminating about how I was going to deal with neck dive, neck whip, neck angle, general tuning instability etc, how many was I going to have to try till I found one that behaved itself reasonably. I was prepared for it to be a real mission. 

In the end I saw a ‘61 on offer, thought what the hell and ordered it unseen. It needed the nut slots deepening slightly but since then tuning, balance etc have been fine. 

Kurtis

I've never noticed the neck dive.

Never actually played an SG!