Jacob Collier approach to guitar

timmypix

thecolourbox said:

timmypix said:

thecolourbox said:

I think his point is that the guitar is not his primary thing, it's something he's doing as an experiment and to learn something new. It's worth noting that on most of his Djesse albums he's got other people in to be "the guitarist" (Vai and Mayer are on the latest one) and can't think off hand where he's got somebody else in to play piano for him, for example

Fair enough, it's not his primary thing.

So?

Does that invalidate him talking about his unique approach to it? If anything, that probably drives his approach as a guitarist, as the interview shows. I just thought it was an odd, dismissive, ignorant comment and I think we should be better than that, really.

 I'm actually surprised (not sure why) at the number of comments in this thread setting out to minimise/dismiss, either overtly or by inference. Collier's talent and ability. It comes across as insecure. Even if you don't like his music, surely his talent and different perspective are worth acknowledging, even if just from the interview that sparked this discussion.

I think I've been pretty vocal in his support!

I took the comment of "you do realise he' not a guitarist" to mean like, give the guy a break as he's clearly excellent at guitar despite being relatively new to it and has come up with this new way of playing? I don't think he meant it dismissively, quite the opposite in fact - despite it not being his primary instrument he's come up with new ways to play it and become proficient enough to record and tour playing it amongst the rest of the ridiculously skilfull music going on!

You have, I wasn't having a dig at you!

And thank you for your perspective, perhaps I'm just too used to expecting negativity here, that I've spread my own. If that is how Steve meant it, my apologies.

I'll pipe down now!

Back on topic, I'm listening to Collier's newest album and it's certainly interesting. Fairly simple songs at their heart but then with all kinds of dressing and ornamentation coming from all kinds of directions. At times fun, at times challenging, there's a lot going on. It's fun from a "oh that's an interesting colour" perspective.

mo6020

Collier is mad as a box of frogs, but a legit genius. While I don't really want to listen to anything he does, the guy's talent is unarguable. 

Dan_Halen

Some people here are so sniffy about anyone with a bit of talent. A musician is an 'artist' and an artist (especially a supremely talented one) often looks for ways to create and express themselves in different and interesting ways rather than just churning out the same old stuff everyone else does.

Won't say I could listen to his music endlessly on repeat, but he does some incredibly interesting stuff. I hear a bit of Prince in there in some of his tracks. A young musician follows their own path rather than endless copy and paste 4 chord pop songs and it's all 'yeah, he's obviously talented but can't write a good song' like that's the only way to be valid musically. Such utter nonsense. People pushing boundaries and innovating should be encouraged as, even if they miss as much as they hit, it paves the way for other musicians who might take influence from it and do something incredible.

If the litmus test for being worthwhile musically is whether you can write bloody Wonderwall or not then we all might as well pack up and go home as obviously wasting our time. However, that's so obviously not the case. Always a bunch of comments in threads here about buying this guitar or that amp along the lines of 'you should worry less about the gear and spend money on lessons' or 'spend less time on the forum, more time making music'. People get good, go out and make music and it's then all 'NO, NOT LIKE THAT'.

Power_Freak

timmypix said:

 I'm actually surprised (not sure why) at the handful of comments in this thread setting out to minimise/dismiss, either overtly or by inference. Collier's talent and ability. It comes across as insecure. Even if you don't like his music, surely his talent and different perspective are worth acknowledging, even if just from the interview that sparked this discussion.

If you don't play a minor pentatonic and ignore the chord changes you don't have feel man...

I listened to a bit of Djesse IV this morning - I'm not infinitely knowledgeable about his back catalogue but this came across as his most complete record to date. To call it "boring" or "bland" or "soulless" or whatever is just plain weird honestly, his compositional voice is fairly unique. If it's not your thing fine (personally I don't like the style of production) - but he's one of the most interesting pop artists out there these days. If you have an interest in music we should be celebrating him, getting a general audience to get used to extended harmony like this can only be a good thing for music as a whole.

thecolourbox

Here is the guitar and audience choir in action - i think the choir are a bunch of fans (albeit looks like Dodie is there? I think they are pals?) who got to attend on the day and learn the choir parts to what was a pretty new song at the time, a month or so it had been released

Bowks

sev112 said:

We do all easiest the he isn’t a guitarist right ?  He just has a a couple and is learning to play them effectively 

He's a musician first and foremost, it's what they do to expand their voice.

Bowks

Power_Freak said:

That's one of the most interesting "guitar interviews" I've seen in a while... Fascinating to watch his brain navigate around the changes while "struggling" with technique. 

As somebody who plays in an altered tuning I like hearing about how/why others ended up with their tuning. I quite like his tuning conceptually, but I would struggle to sound how I want with it I think... I'd love to try and extend the concept to a 7 string and end up with an absolutely massive tonal range though - kind of a George Van Eps and Lenny Breau tuning in one!

I thought exactly the same about trying the tuning system on a 7 string!

Power_Freak

Bowks said:

Power_Freak said:

That's one of the most interesting "guitar interviews" I've seen in a while... Fascinating to watch his brain navigate around the changes while "struggling" with technique. 

As somebody who plays in an altered tuning I like hearing about how/why others ended up with their tuning. I quite like his tuning conceptually, but I would struggle to sound how I want with it I think... I'd love to try and extend the concept to a 7 string and end up with an absolutely massive tonal range though - kind of a George Van Eps and Lenny Breau tuning in one!

I thought exactly the same about trying the tuning system on a 7 string!

I have a "spare" 7 sitting here... I might order a custom set to give it a try. I probably don't need another tuning to learn though, and it'll likely be pretty spendy to just give it a whirl.

Lewy

thecolourbox said:

Here is the guitar and audience choir in action - i think the choir are a bunch of fans (albeit looks like Dodie is there? I think they are pals?) who got to attend on the day and learn the choir parts to what was a pretty new song at the time, a month or so it had been released

That's breathtaking. I loved the way he was conducting the choir. Reminded me if this:

Fishboy7

Tough crowd.  I hadn't heard of him before but seems pretty great to me.  

PolarityMan

Imagine using such prodigious talent and innate musicality to write such awful music.

His work sounds like if a score was created by a constraint satisfaction algorithm. 

monquixote

This thread makes me feel sad about the forum.

SimonC

monquixote said:

This thread makes me feel sad about the forum.

There's an overall impression that the guitar community as a whole is a very conservative and backward facing crowd.
No wonder we still idolise players and guitars from almost 70 years ago.
I include myself in that crowd, by the way.
Don't forget that players like Hendrix and EVH were actually villified by many players when they first emerged because they were too "different".

Innovators stand little chance.

WYNIR0

Fascinating interview. I was aware of the name but hadn't heard anything of his. He seems very open to learning despite his talent and clearly entered the world wired to understand music completely. 

PolarityMan

monquixote said:

This thread makes me feel sad about the forum.

The thing is, for me, I want music that makes an emotional connection. Firstly I think the only emotion Jacob Collier can feel is smugness and secondly I think to really connect to emotion a music idea usually benefits from being presented in a more minimal form. I think his additive approach to music actually significantly dilutes his ability to emotionally connect. 

There's a video on you tube...I think its this one but could be another with a similar name:



Basically Herbie Hancock and Jacob Collier play increasingly obtusely harmonised versions of a simple tune (I think it is the saints go marching in). By the end the output is just total garbage and they're just winking and nudging each other like "see what i did there". 

It wouldn't be so aggravating had I not also watched enough interviews with him to realise how insanely talented he is.

distressed

So, the general consensus would be - if you don't like musical equivalent of some hyperrealistic painter, you don't like music?

This is some TGP vibe, there are 60+ classic rock dudes who occasionally discover Polyphia or similar TikTok product, and suddenly it's the future of music and something fresh and never heard before.

Dan_Halen

PolarityMan said:

monquixote said:

This thread makes me feel sad about the forum.

The thing is, for me, I want music that makes an emotional connection. Firstly I think the only emotion Jacob Collier can feel is smugness and secondly I think to really connect to emotion a music idea usually benefits from being presented in a more minimal form. I think his additive approach to music actually significantly dilutes his ability to emotionally connect. 

There's a video on you tube...I think its this one but could be another with a similar name:



Basically Herbie Hancock and Jacob Collier play increasingly obtusely harmonised versions of a simple tune (I think it is the saints go marching in). By the end the output is just total garbage and they're just winking and nudging each other like "see what i did there". 

It wouldn't be so aggravating had I not also watched enough interviews with him to realise how insanely talented he is.

TLDR: Stuff I don't like must be shit

thecolourbox

PolarityMan said:

monquixote said:

This thread makes me feel sad about the forum.

The thing is, for me, I want music that makes an emotional connection. Firstly I think the only emotion Jacob Collier can feel is smugness and secondly I think to really connect to emotion a music idea usually benefits from being presented in a more minimal form. I think his additive approach to music actually significantly dilutes his ability to emotionally connect. 

There's a video on you tube...I think its this one but could be another with a similar name:



Basically Herbie Hancock and Jacob Collier play increasingly obtusely harmonised versions of a simple tune (I think it is the saints go marching in). By the end the output is just total garbage and they're just winking and nudging each other like "see what i did there". 

It wouldn't be so aggravating had I not also watched enough interviews with him to realise how insanely talented he is.

FWIW it's worth I can't stand the tune of Amazing Grace, but I liked the version they did at the end very much

Schnozz

Leaves his thermal blankey on '11' and then goes out for the day to vote green party.

thecolourbox

Schnozz said:

Leaves his thermal blankey on '11' and then goes out for the day to vote green party.

Yearning for the days when popular musicians were grooming kids, or doing all kinds of drugs, ranting about immigrants or smashing up hotel rooms I suppose