Jacob Collier approach to guitar

Stuckfast

monquixote said:

Schnozz said:

theatreanchor said:

No one else find him insufferably smug? 

Just another rich London kid. Self-taught? I doubt it.

His mum is a professional violinist.

And his dad is a vicar.

So, probably not rolling in it.

Power_Freak

distressed said:

So, the general consensus would be - if you don't like musical equivalent of some hyperrealistic painter, you don't like music?

This is some TGP vibe, there are 60+ classic rock dudes who occasionally discover Polyphia or similar TikTok product, and suddenly it's the future of music and something fresh and never heard before.

I don't think any has said you have to like it? (At least they're in the minority)

The reason it's getting heated are phrases like: "he can't write a good song" or "SRV didn't need these scales" or "theory = zero feel" or whatever guitar player nonsense that gets said.

In my view Collier is a pop artist (at least that's how he's marketed) - and compared to the one chord vamps that have completely dominated pop music since the success of the weekend, this is a huge step forward for popular music and it should be appreciated as such. Even if you don't particularly enjoy what he puts out, it's incredibly good for music if he becomes hugely successful and starts a "trend" back towards harmony... Even if it's just people starting to write chord progressions again.

Philly_Q

Power_Freak said:

The reason it's getting heated are phrases like: "he can't write a good song" or "SRV didn't need these scales" or "theory = zero feel" or whatever guitar player nonsense that gets said.

I haven't gone back and re-read the whole thread, but although there are certainly comments dismissing his songwriting, I don't think anyone ha actually said anything like "SRV didn't need these scales" or "theory = zero feel"?  It's all getting blown out of proportion, on both sides of the argument.

enjo

Philly_Q said:

 It's all getting blown out of proportion, on both sides of the argument.

Sounds familiar!

For me, what ever tickles your pickle... Sometimes I'm in the mood for something simple yet emotional, sometimes I want to be surprised by an unexpected note or directed in my emotions by a well engineered progression.

If you don't like something, that's fair enough but it's worth remembering you are talking about real people, on a public forum. If you wouldn't say these things to the artists faces perhaps think about whether you post it on a forum. 
(That's not aimed at you Philly_Q!)

enjo

distressed said:

LionAquaLooper said:

english_bob said:

I vote for "too clever by half". 

I get that he knows everything there is to know about music, but I've yet to hear anything of his that actually did something for me. All his covers seem to be exercises in demonstrating how thankful you should be that your musical heroes know less than he does about music theory.

+1.  Can't doubt his talent, skill and knowledge but his songs don't stick in my memory and stir any emotions.  
In the context of this thread I'll call him a genius like Kasparov is at chess....and to me listening to Jacob's music is like watching Kasparov play chess.

Kasparov is much more interesting to watch.

Funny enough I'd enjoy both.
That doesn't mean I wouldn't rather watch Carlsen opening with A2 or a Cardinal Black live recording on any given day! 

Dumodal

He's incredibly talented, love his organised chaos? You never know how or where the song will go but for some reason fits, "Little Blue" is a great song and refreshing compared to the new trash that the radio is popping.

There's a lot of grumpy fellas here, the guy has only 29 and have a plethora of Grammy's, his first one at 22 for a record he produced in his bedroom, I bet the ones criticising had few Grammy's or any relevant recognition in music too?

Does it even matter where he came from or how he learnt music? He's a British talent be proud of it (I am not even British).

Definitely his music is not my cup of tea (I am mostly punk or classic rock) but this guy is just on another level. 

Roland

monquixote said:

This thread makes me feel sad about the forum.

There’s a section of every population, not just here, which decries things they don’t understand, or can’t do themselves. Matt Schofield told me that he used to be criticised in blues clubs for playing notes which weren’t in the pentatonic scale.

Jacob Collier is the most exciting thing I’ve seen in music for a long time. I admire his ability to harmonise microtonally. I am enthused by his enthusiasm for playing music. I am pleased that many other people recognise those skills and abilities. At the same time I can understand why some people, including many whose opinions I respect, aren’t enthused by it.

sev112

sev112 said:

We do all easiest the he isn’t a guitarist right ?  He just has a a couple and is learning to play them effectively 

(Pardon my typing) I just want to clarify that I am highly impressed with him, bearing in mind that the guitar is far away from being his first instrument.

imalrightjack

monquixote said:

english_bob said:

I vote for "too clever by half". 

I get that he knows everything there is to know about music, but I've yet to hear anything of his that actually did something for me. All his covers seem to be exercises in demonstrating how thankful you should be that your musical heroes know less than he does about music theory.

Well. Now I’m convinced. 

  

elstoof

That track Well is quite a catchy pop tune. Goes a bit too Sparky’s Magic Piano with the layered harmonies in the bridge mind

BigPaulie

I know he's a prodigy and all that, but when I see these kind of videos I think about Villanelle looking at this.

Sporky

Dumodal said:

I bet the ones criticising had few Grammy's or any relevant recognition in music too?

This is one of the worst arguments trotted out in this sort of discussion. Neat combination of argument from authority and ad hominem.

It's like declaring that people aren't allowed to say they didn't like a meal in a Michelin starred restaurant , when it was made from ingredients they don't like.

I also don't get the "be proud" thing. His achievements owe absolutely nothing to me.

Lewy

Sporky said:

Dumodal said:

I bet the ones criticising had few Grammy's or any relevant recognition in music too?

This is one of the worst arguments trotted out in this sort of discussion. Neat combination of argument from authority and ad hominem.

It's like declaring that people aren't allowed to say they didn't like a meal in a Michelin starred restaurant , when it was made from ingredients they don't like.

'tis true. If you need a Grammy to say it's bad then you logically also need a Grammy to say it's good. 

Went down a youtube rabbit hole as a result of this thread which I'm glad I did, A couple of things I saw I am now obsessed with, a couple of things I'm glad I saw but probably won't ever revisit, and some things that left me cold. But I didn't see any of the smugness mentioned in this thread. Any time he talks he comes across as being a pretty humble guy. Is smug a label automatically given to people based on diction these days?

thecolourbox

Lewy said:

Is smug a label automatically given to people based on diction these days?

Yeah, usually if you're young, polite, confident and smart

sev112

While I was restringing yesterday I made my Taylor a 5 string, that was quite fun

imalrightjack

thecolourbox said:

Lewy said:

Is smug a label automatically given to people based on diction these days?

Yeah, usually if you're young, polite, confident and smart

Thank Christ none of us here qualify.

Bowks

sev112 said:

While I was restringing yesterday I made my Taylor a 5 string, that was quite fun

I messed around with the tuning last night. I liked how easy it is to ues the 3rd string for the 3rd in a barre chord. Didn't get into anything much fancier, as it was late and wine.

Sporky

Lewy said:

I didn't see any of the smugness mentioned in this thread. Any time he talks he comes across as being a pretty humble guy. Is smug a label automatically given to people based on diction these days?

Agreed - very passionate and knowledgeable and insightful and excited. No smug I could detect.

What I've heard is very clever, well crafted pop, that does very little for me. My loss, not his! 

EricTheWeary

I watched a few tracks on YouTube and a bit of the video in the OP. I thought he seemed quite humble about the idea anyone would ask him about his guitar playing, I didn't get the smugness. 
If this forum has taught me one thing it's along the lines of 'here's a video, isn't this impressive ' almost never impresses me because, I don't know, I just don't think that's how I ever discover music. Maybe I'll come back to this again in six months now I know the name. Certainly a talented/clever person and, as others have said, on a guitar forum maybe we should be glad that someone is making guitar and harmony central to pop choons where so much of it has become homogenised four chord loops,etc. 

Bowks

EricTheWeary said:

I watched a few tracks on YouTube and a bit of the video in the OP. I thought he seemed quite humble about the idea anyone would ask him about his guitar playing, I didn't get the smugness. 
If this forum has taught me one thing it's along the lines of 'here's a video, isn't this impressive ' almost never impresses me because, I don't know, I just don't think that's how I ever discover music. Maybe I'll come back to this again in six months now I know the name. Certainly a talented/clever person and, as others have said, on a guitar forum maybe we should be glad that someone is making guitar and harmony central to pop choons where so much of it has become homogenised four chord loops,etc. 

THat's one more chord than the blooz