Sydney hostage crisis

frankus

It's a bit daft comparing Israel's response to terrorists. That's like comparing Lassie's response to dogs.

musicegbdf

OK I am in a majority of one , and now daft and ready to start a new world war apparently.
 However, I stand by my opinion that the "terrorist" see's our humanity as a weakness .
World history has shown a strong Civilization can only be maintained from a position of strength, and we must show strength in the right way.

I have spent a lot of time working in both the Middle East (including Israel) , and all people I have met have been wonderful and hospitable people with the same aims as all of us. To cloth and feed the family. Terrorism is a cancer and has to be isolated from the rest of the body and dealt with severely.

Think this will be my last comment as I know I will be beaten up , and this is not the speakers corner so will respect the Mods and not rise to the bait...

IanSavage

randomhandclaps said:

musicegbdf said:

We need to adopt Israeli diplomacy
Kill one of mine I will kill 100 of yours.

100 years since that 'one' was Franz Ferdinand, shouldn't we have cottoned on that it's an awfully flawed policy?!

Bit harsh.

 

'Take Me Out' got played to death, but 'You Can Have It So Much Better' was a pretty good follow-up album.

hugbot

The thing is, this is one nutter though. I mean I'm not saying ISIS ect aren't a threat, but I always find it weird. If someone goes on a shooting spree because say he's just a nutter (ie the Isla vista killer, who did it because he couldn't get laid) then that's that. But if a nutter does it yelling Allahu Akbar then now we're talking about killing 100 of "them" in response. It doesen't matter how much "strength" you show in response because only rational entities (ie governments, organisations) will respond to that threat. Wheras there are always going to be nutters.

frankus

musicegbdf said:

I have spent a lot of time working in both the Middle East (including Israel) , and all people I have met have been wonderful and hospitable people with the same aims as all of us. To cloth and feed the family. Terrorism is a cancer and has to be isolated from the rest of the body and dealt with severely.

My point was Israel was founded by terrorists. That's a simple fact.

VimFuego

hugbot said:

The thing is, this is one nutter though. I mean I'm not saying ISIS ect aren't a threat, but I always find it weird. If someone goes on a shooting spree because say he's just a nutter (ie the Isla vista killer, who did it because he couldn't get laid) then that's that. But if a nutter does it yelling Allahu Akbar then now we're talking about killing 100 of "them" in response. It doesen't matter how much "strength" you show in response because only rational entities (ie governments, organisations) will respond to that threat. Wheras there are always going to be nutters.

yup. Yesterday, in America, a lone gun man killed 6 people. Thing is, he wasn't a muslim so we don't hear calls to kill 100 (oddly enough, he was a ginger nutter with a gun fixation).

randomhandclaps

VimFuego said:

yup. Yesterday, in America, a lone gun man killed 6 people. Thing is, he wasn't a muslim so we don't hear calls to kill 100 (oddly enough, he was a ginger nutter with a gun fixation).

Precisely what I find curious about the prospect of retaliation.  This guy was not working on behalf of any state, organisation or recognised movement so how do we go about identifying those 100 to take out in return.  Who will it be?  100 random Muslims? 100 random Iranians? 100 random brown people?  100 random immigrants?  100 random religious preachers?  100 random sex offenders? 100 random men? 100 random people with beards? 100 random people with glasses?  100 random owners of black flags? 

VimFuego

well, I believe the Israeli method is to kill 100 random children, though this may be a matter of economics, it's easier to kill children than adults (more bang for your buck) and you can be assured of finding lots of targets in a small space if you target locations where children a likely to congregate, like schools, playgrounds, the beach etc. In an age of austerity, it's a very cost efficient way of teaching them a lesson.

Snap

musicegbdf said:

OK I am in a majority of one , and now daft and ready to start a new world war apparently.
 However, I stand by my opinion that the "terrorist" see's our humanity as a weakness .
World history has shown a strong Civilization can only be maintained from a position of strength, and we must show strength in the right way.

I have spent a lot of time working in both the Middle East (including Israel) , and all people I have met have been wonderful and hospitable people with the same aims as all of us. To cloth and feed the family. Terrorism is a cancer and has to be isolated from the rest of the body and dealt with severely.

Think this will be my last comment as I know I will be beaten up , and this is not the speakers corner so will respect the Mods and not rise to the bait...

Imk with you on this. Jut come back from the middle east, been there on and off all year, including in Israel during the last war with Gaza.

having spent a lot of time in a few countries over there this year, I think I can make a balanced opinion. One thing that struck me, and I was naiively shocked by it, is that our media doesn't give a balanced view on what's happening either.

Near enough every person I've met in the mid east wants peace and quiet. Seems a few just can't deal with this. I'ts very sad.

I was in Jordan the other week - there's an intersesting place. Having realised that they have very little of theor own natural resources, they invest enormously in education, and have one of the highest literacy rates in the world. AS a consequence, despite being an Arab nation, in the thick of it, geographically, they have relatively little problem with extremism, and they are a largely Sunni muslim society (like IS).

chillidoggy

VimFuego said:

hugbot said:

The thing is, this is one nutter though. I mean I'm not saying ISIS ect aren't a threat, but I always find it weird. If someone goes on a shooting spree because say he's just a nutter (ie the Isla vista killer, who did it because he couldn't get laid) then that's that. But if a nutter does it yelling Allahu Akbar then now we're talking about killing 100 of "them" in response. It doesen't matter how much "strength" you show in response because only rational entities (ie governments, organisations) will respond to that threat. Wheras there are always going to be nutters.

yup. Yesterday, in America, a lone gun man killed 6 people. Thing is, he wasn't a muslim so we don't hear calls to kill 100 (oddly enough, he was a ginger nutter with a gun fixation).

That last bit just seems so familiar, somehow.......

Phil_aka_Pip

frankus said:

My point was Israel was founded by terrorists. That's a simple fact.

bollocks

Phil_aka_Pip

VimFuego said:

well, I believe the Israeli method is to kill 100 random children, though this may be a matter of consequence,  you can be assured of finding lots of targets in a small space if you target military sites which Hamas has placed where children are likely to congregate, like schools, playgrounds, the beach etc. In an age of austerity, it's a very cost efficient way of making Israel look like the baddies.

ftfy

VimFuego

phil, I would ask you not to do that to my posts, I know what I wanted to write and I meant the words I used. I don't do this thing of twisting the words of others to score cheap points and I would ask that you don't do that to my posts.

Jalapeno

Phil_aka_Pip said:

frankus said:

My point was Israel was founded by terrorists. That's a simple fact.

bollocks

No, it is correct.

VimFuego

chillidoggy said:

VimFuego said:

hugbot said:

The thing is, this is one nutter though. I mean I'm not saying ISIS ect aren't a threat, but I always find it weird. If someone goes on a shooting spree because say he's just a nutter (ie the Isla vista killer, who did it because he couldn't get laid) then that's that. But if a nutter does it yelling Allahu Akbar then now we're talking about killing 100 of "them" in response. It doesen't matter how much "strength" you show in response because only rational entities (ie governments, organisations) will respond to that threat. Wheras there are always going to be nutters.

yup. Yesterday, in America, a lone gun man killed 6 people. Thing is, he wasn't a muslim so we don't hear calls to kill 100 (oddly enough, he was a ginger nutter with a gun fixation).

That last but just seems so familiar, somehow.......

clearly I have no idea what you are talking about, and this isn't cos I'm scared of upsetting a ginger nutter with a gun fixation who has extended fantasies about gunning down random strangers. cos no such person exists, clearly...

Forge

Now the Talibans targeted a school in Pakistan. Fucking animals...you won't find a more cowardly low life fucking bunch of primates. Oh do they hate education and woman emancipation, they'd much rather live like cavemen and rape young girls at will. Time to crack on and hunt those cunts...

chillidoggy

No, indeed. Clearly not.

randomhandclaps

Phil_aka_Pip said:

VimFuego said:

well, I believe the Israeli method is to kill 100 random children, though this may be a matter of consequence,  you can be assured of finding lots of targets in a small space if you target military sites which Hamas has placed where children are likely to congregate, like schools, playgrounds, the beach etc. In an age of austerity, it's a very cost efficient way of making Israel look like the baddies.

ftfy

So children are fair game (or acceptable collateral) as long as you can achieve your military requirements? 

An interesting thing fact that people ignore when they say "Yeah Israel only bombed that hospital because Hamas were there!" is that both Israel and the west have massive amounts of satellite and spy drone data.  The simple fact is that the hospital (or school etc.) didn't actually move, they were fully aware it was there.  Adopting Israeli tactics in Sydney would have meant firing a cruise missile into the café to ensure the 'terrorist' was 'neutralized' and then explaining all other deaths as being the fault of the 'terrorist' for hiding in a café.

Forge

Collateral damage be it children or adult civilians will always fuel hatred, it is in the terrorist interest for the hate and racism to be propagated. I find killing children abject, regardless of who pulls the trigger.

Phil_aka_Pip

VimFuego said:

phil, I would ask you not to do that to my posts, I know what I wanted to write and I meant the words I used. I don't do this thing of twisting the words of others to score cheap points and I would ask that you don't do that to my posts.

No personal disrespect intended Vim, but the edit was to show the opposite point of view. I admit to subscribing to that point of view, so I guess what I was doing was stating it while using your template ... it wasn't an attempt to twist, more an attempt to show that if you substitute words and phrases you can get the opposite. I can agree to differ with you if you can agree to differ with me - etc etc