Line 6 Helix

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Also, I've not noticed any tonal changes to be honest. The Helix is the first unit where my first reaction was "that's absolutely transparent" - so at that point if my first reaction was that it was transparent, and days or months later I start to think differently... I'm more likely to put that down to some sort of bias rather than actual lack of transparency.

Whereas when I had the Axe FX II, Boss GT-100, PodHD, and M9/M13 units in 4-cable method... I heard a difference and a lack of transparency immediately.

I think this was acknowledged on the Axe FX 2 mk1 and mk2 (IIRC You had the mk2), and addressed in the XL/XL+ revisions.  Honestly, I've never tried 4CM with the Axe FX 2.

Yeah it was acknowledged when the FX8 was announced iirc. Have you never been tempted to try 4cm?

Sporky said:

Drew_TNBD said:

guitarfishbay said:

Drew noted that he thinks he can feel 1ms with drums.

I think you misunderstood me or I wasn't clear enough. What I meant in that other thread was that with midi drums there is already significant points of latency that an additional 1ms can make a big difference.

Makes sense - people have a threshold where they notice latency, which is (if I remember correctly) typically 15-20ms. So if your threshold is, say, 15ms, and there's 14ms in the system, adding another 1ms would take it from not noticeable to noticeable, whereas with acoustic drums, adding even 10ms wouldn't be noticeable.

Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at. At a certain point it flips from not being noticable to being noticable, and with e-kits I find you reach that point quicker than you do with guitar stuff.

The most I've used in terms of FX loops on the Helix is 2, so that's an addtional 4ms or so being added, and I can't feel it.

Something else to consider... digital pedals have their own latency too. So not only are you adding the AD/DA latency, but you're also adding the pedals AD/DA latency - so that's a factor too.

Bridgehouse

Presumably if you use wireless that adds to the latency too?

Drew_TNBD

Bridgehouse said:

Presumably if you use wireless that adds to the latency too?

Yep!

Each single device by itself doesn't really add any latency, but a big chain of AD/DA would definitely add a lot of latency and you'd feel it.

TimmyO

RandallFlagg said:

I'm disappointed with my Helix for the first time since getting it last year.

I bought a new amp recently, a Morgan PR12, which sounds great and I want to use the Helix for effects only through the front and it works a treat for that no problem. I have everything I need either in stompbox mode with scenes for each of my guitars or I can use presets as and when required. All good.

But, this weekend I spent some time A/B'ing between guitar direct to amp and via Helix with everything off and there is a change in the dry sound running through the Helix. I'm losing something that is really hard to put into words, but a smoothness, rounding of the tone, is lost and the dry tone through the Helix sounds a little colder, brighter maybe, a little more solid state amp sounding. It's subtle but noticeable.  

The Morgan's pure tone is so good that it's really worth preserving so I am in a dilemma now as to whether the Helix is really cutting it for me in front of the amp but I love the mulit-fx programmability and convenience and also have the Helix available for direct to desktop playing and recording, just wish I could keep that pure Morgan tone.

2 things

 is that direct, unaffected sound an important one to you? If not then..... ?

You went looking to see if there was a small, hard to perceive difference and found one. ? ;-) 

guitarfishbay

Drew_TNBD said:

guitarfishbay said:

Drew_TNBD said:
Whereas when I had the Axe FX II, Boss GT-100, PodHD, and M9/M13 units in 4-cable method... I heard a difference and a lack of transparency immediately.

I think this was acknowledged on the Axe FX 2 mk1 and mk2 (IIRC You had the mk2), and addressed in the XL/XL+ revisions.  Honestly, I've never tried 4CM with the Axe FX 2.

Yeah it was acknowledged when the FX8 was announced iirc. Have you never been tempted to try 4cm?

I don't have a real amp anymore, but if I ever did get one I'd honestly probably just use it with pedals (still have my old board of Boss/Dunlop) and leave my Axe FX 2 permanently racked at home for recording.  I can't see it being any easier for me than just using separates, because I mostly do simple stuff and I'd need to bring an Axe FX and a floor controller, which is more stuff than just a board.  It'd be different if I had a floor based unit like a Helix or FX8. 

gibsongretschfan

I honestly can't notice any "tone suck" with Helix. 

I think A/B'ing can also bad ("tone suck" aside) as if you get some like Helix and start comparing against pedals you already have then most likely you will prefer what you currently do have in a side by side

Sometimes it's best just to take Helix or other device at face value and find things that make you smile inside of that device.

well, this is my new approach and it's paying off

TimmyO

I found a downside of the immense flexibility: 

Turned on with my acoustic plugged in, last patch I used was screaming blues gain.... ouchy loud ouchy lol 

Digital_Igloo

stratman3142 said:

For those that are a bit obsessive and curious about these things (like me ) I stumbled on a recent thread about the Helix audio latency at the link below:

http://line6.com/support/topic/27239-helix-latency-what-is-it-really/#entry211826

It would appear that the audio latency is about 1.8ms, which would be imperceptible to me and I certainly haven't noticed anything from using my LT.

What is interesting is that each send and return block (in series) would add similar amounts of latency. I suppose it's something to be aware of if you're using 4CM and then start to stack further effects in series within multiple send and return loops. If you start to feel it, I suppose you just need to stand a bit closer to your amp .

That's not quite accurate. Helix's full throughput is indeed less than 2ms, but that includes the DSP hop. An additional D/A and A/D conversion through an effects loop should add less than a single ms each, unless of course you're using digital pedals, in which case Helix is at the mercy of their latency, which we have no control over.

Helix with 4 mono analog pedals—one per loop—full wet, in series should be between 5 and 6ms. Notably less so if the pedals are stereo, in parallel, or set to wet mix only.

stratman3142

Digital_Igloo said:

stratman3142 said:

For those that are a bit obsessive and curious about these things (like me ) I stumbled on a recent thread about the Helix audio latency at the link below:

http://line6.com/support/topic/27239-helix-latency-what-is-it-really/#entry211826

It would appear that the audio latency is about 1.8ms, which would be imperceptible to me and I certainly haven't noticed anything from using my LT.

What is interesting is that each send and return block (in series) would add similar amounts of latency. I suppose it's something to be aware of if you're using 4CM and then start to stack further effects in series within multiple send and return loops. If you start to feel it, I suppose you just need to stand a bit closer to your amp .

That's not quite accurate. Helix's full throughput is indeed less than 2ms, but that includes the DSP hop. An additional D/A and A/D conversion through an effects loop should add less than a single ms each, unless of course you're using digital pedals, in which case Helix is at the mercy of their latency, which we have no control over.

Helix with 4 mono analog pedals—one per loop—full wet, in series should be between 5 and 6ms. Notably less so if the pedals are stereo, in parallel, or set to wet mix only.

OK thanks for the clarification.

Drew_TNBD

My neck... my back... Lick my Helix and my er... Helix Rack...

menamestom

 

The latency on mine is currently 24 hours, as it has just been collected from DV247 by DPD.

I've just strummed a chord, which I expect to hear about this time tomorrow:)

menamestom

TimmyO said:

@menamestom ;

OK here we go - a few shots of GarageBand






Garageband has limitations - in particular you can't record more than one track of audio at once, nor really do much powerful with it once recorded, so proper iOS DAWs are worth a look.

I like Cubasis on iOS (although I use Logic on the laptop - go figure) 









The main thing that might have you grrrrrr-ing at the screen when it doesn't work as you expect threw me for AGES - and that's having your headphones plugged in to the iPad at the same time as the Camera Connection Kit.

for some reason, when both are plugged in (or indeed when both have BEEN plugged in but you then remove the headphones) the iPad doesn't see the CCK's USB/Helix inputs - the headphone mic seems to override and distract it.

Shut Garageband/DAW down, unplug devices, plug the CCK connection back in and it'll be available as the audio source. 

I presume (!) that if you were to use vanilla headphones (rather than ones with a headset mic built in) then this shouldn't be an issue, but I've not tested it.

One last thing, I'd recommend monitoring via Helix (either main outs or headphones) and if you do that then set DAW outputs to USB1+2 and turn DAW/Garageband monitoring off.

With my iPad Air 1 the latency is actually very low however I monitor, but monitoring on Helix is tightest. 

@TimmyO 've tried connecting the Helix into garageband and it recognises it as an input, but no sound appears in garageband.  Can I just ask what camera connector you are using?  Mine is the original lightening to usb one model A1440, i'm thinking that may be the issue?

TimmyO

I think for more likely that you're not sending audio to whichever USB inputs you're selecting in GarageBand.

check the patch outputs and the USB stuff in globals.

Mine is the new cck- with the additional lightning socket for power, but the original one should work exactly the same 

menamestom

TimmyO said:

I think for more likely that you're not sending audio to whichever USB inputs you're selecting in GarageBand.

check the patch outputs and the USB stuff in globals.

Mine is the new cck- with the additional lightning socket for power, but the original one should work exactly the same 

Thanks.  Got it working, first on my phone which was fine but on the ipad I had to 'reset garageband' in the ipad settings menu.  So all good

Teetonetal

I am currently having huge amounts of playing a moog mini VST synth, with my feet, whilst noodling over the top.



The synth swell and bass line, all played on the helix, controlling a VST with midi note data. Seriously, this device is cool.
Only down side is that the switches are not really the right kind for this use.

TimmyO

Sounds great @Teetonetal - can you share the patch so I can have a nosey at the midi note setup? 

Teetonetal

Sure @TimmyO will do it tonight when I get back. Though I nabbed most of it from the bass pedals (midi) template

TimmyO

menamestom said:

TimmyO said:

I think for more likely that you're not sending audio to whichever USB inputs you're selecting in GarageBand.

check the patch outputs and the USB stuff in globals.

Mine is the new cck- with the additional lightning socket for power, but the original one should work exactly the same 

Thanks.  Got it working, first on my phone which was fine but on the ipad I had to 'reset garageband' in the ipad settings menu.  So all good

Cool - enjoy!

TimmyO

Teetonetal said:

Sure @TimmyO will do it tonight when I get back. Though I nabbed most of it from the bass pedals (midi) template

cheers - might have a go with Animoog... 

menamestom

Well 3 days in I'm really liking my LT.  Bought a 3Sigma Audio Martin D45 IR and it sounds great, was really easy to load and with a bit if compression makes my UST guitar sound ace, just like it would in the cans with a well places condenser, but without any phasing issues ot handling noise.

Straight into my Fender amp it sounds great as a pedalboard and also into the monitors with an amp and cab sim sounds cool too.  Not sure I'll go FRFR but I could do. I like the Plexi model through a 4x12 greenback cab, some early reflection and a bit of room reverb to create some extra real world space.   

Lots of great sounds in this box and whatever you can imagine it seems able to do.  I'm still looking for a tight rock drive pedal, but had some success using a plexi preamp instead.   

The only downside is a sore neck from looking down so much!