The Rugby Union Thread

lloyd

hywelg said:

lloyd;1003421" said:

There's plenty to be optimistic about.

Not really, they really haven't been challenged this 6N. Wales handed them a 19 point lead on a plate and they were found seriously wanting for the last 10 minutes. So much for Eddie's 30% fitter......

Their much lauded front row came off second best, their number 8 was rendered ineffective. Wales gifted them a few lineout turnovers. And we stayed in bed when they had the ball in the backs.

What they do have to optimistic about is Otoje and their running in open play. Don't underestimate how badly off they'll come against SH teams if they play like that. They will turn England over in the last 20.

Wales would have been 40 points down against SH teams playing like we did.

I think they've more than that to be optimistic about, come on. 

Eddie Jones has shown over the years he's a great coach, so that's something to be optimistic about, their player base has been good enough to have performed much better over the last 13 years, however they've put in some shit coaches due to the fact they're English. They've got away from that and they'll be better for it.

Why do you think they'll play like they did against SH teams? They'll put a plan together to compete against them and I'm sure they will do so over the next few years. They will without a doubt perform better than Wales have against the SH in the last 10 years.

Their coach has had 4 games, he's won 4, they've won the 6N and they'll probably do the GS.

I like shitting on England as much as the next Welshman but let's give credit where it's due, you can only beat what's in front of you.

Wales have won a few 6N's by virtue of the fact that England and France have been shit, I think it's their turn to benefit from that for a bit.

Next year will be tougher as they play Ireland and Wales away, Ireland will have less injuries and Wales are a better team at home.

England are a team on the up, are they the finished article, not even close, but I know which set of fans will be the happiest this Monday and not just because they've won the title. 

Things to be optimistic about:

Itoje

Nathan Hughes imminent Anglicization

Vunipola and him reducing his pie intake

The back 3

Launchbury

Half back combination and cover

Hartley maturing (let's see)

Coaching team which oversaw Japan's scrum in WC15 coaching them for the next few years

Decent lineout

The rest of the countries in dissarray

digitalscream

hywelg said:

lloyd;1003421" said:

There's plenty to be optimistic about.

Not really, they really haven't been challenged this 6N. Wales handed them a 19 point lead on a plate and they were found seriously wanting for the last 10 minutes. So much for Eddie's 30% fitter......

I didn't want to get into this, but let's not forget that Wales only seemed to play like a real rugby team once it was a 15 vs 14 game. From what I can tell, it was less about fitness and more about England having understood how to play to their new coaches' game plan as a 15, but not being quite sure what to do as a 14.

There are a couple of simple things they can do about that:

1 - Make a plan for losing a player

2 - Don't lose a player

Wales didn't suddenly come good in the last 10, it's just that they were facing a natural overlap everywhere they looked.

lloyd

digitalscream said:

hywelg said:

lloyd;1003421" said:

There's plenty to be optimistic about.

Not really, they really haven't been challenged this 6N. Wales handed them a 19 point lead on a plate and they were found seriously wanting for the last 10 minutes. So much for Eddie's 30% fitter......

I didn't want to get into this, but let's not forget that Wales only seemed to play like a real rugby team once it was a 15 vs 14 game. From what I can tell, it was less about fitness and more about England having understood how to play to their new coaches' game plan as a 15, but not being quite sure what to do as a 14.

There are a couple of simple things they can do about that:

1 - Make a plan for losing a player

2 - Don't lose a player

Wales didn't suddenly come good in the last 10, it's just that they were facing a natural overlap everywhere they looked.

The extra man off obviously helps, but we did start performing better about 10 mins before he went off. We looked even better against 14, teams usually will.

That will be down to a number of factors, including us putting better men on (IMO) chasing a game we need to score tries, fitness, England changing players that didn't need changing, nerves from England etc etc

exocet

lloyd said:

digitalscream said:

hywelg said:

lloyd;1003421" said:

There's plenty to be optimistic about.

Not really, they really haven't been challenged this 6N. Wales handed them a 19 point lead on a plate and they were found seriously wanting for the last 10 minutes. So much for Eddie's 30% fitter......

I didn't want to get into this, but let's not forget that Wales only seemed to play like a real rugby team once it was a 15 vs 14 game. From what I can tell, it was less about fitness and more about England having understood how to play to their new coaches' game plan as a 15, but not being quite sure what to do as a 14.

There are a couple of simple things they can do about that:

1 - Make a plan for losing a player

2 - Don't lose a player

Wales didn't suddenly come good in the last 10, it's just that they were facing a natural overlap everywhere they looked.

The extra man off obviously helps, but we did start performing better about 10 mins before he went off. We looked even better against 14, teams usually will.

That will be down to a number of factors, including us putting better men on (IMO) chasing a game we need to score tries, fitness, England changing players that didn't need changing, nerves from England etc etc

We started to look threatening at 58 minutes - North went over but judged ball knocked on by JD2 in tackle...I don't think it was but I'm Welsh!

Wales also have a rather poor record in letting "man advantages" slip.....even conceding tries during the period of advantage....to score 2 tries in 7 minutes and almost score a 3rd was pretty good from Wales.

kjdowd

digitalscream;1003590" said:

hywelg said:

lloyd;1003421" said:



There's plenty to be optimistic about.

Not really, they really haven't been challenged this 6N. Wales handed them a 19 point lead on a plate and they were found seriously wanting for the last 10 minutes. So much for Eddie's 30% fitter......












I didn't want to get into this, but let's not forget that Wales only seemed to play like a real rugby team once it was a 15 vs 14 game. From what I can tell, it was less about fitness and more about England having understood how to play to their new coaches' game plan as a 15, but not being quite sure what to do as a 14.

There are a couple of simple things they can do about that:

1 - Make a plan for losing a player2 - Don't lose a player

Wales didn't suddenly come good in the last 10, it's just that they were facing a natural overlap everywhere they looked.

Exactly. Same thing happened in the Ireland game (although Ireland had already punched some holes in the English defence prior to the sin bin). The team don't seem to be quite there with the defensive system yet, and that shows when in the final quarter (tiring players, disruption of subs) and when down to 14.

Gassage

Lancaster: "Andy?"

Farrell: "What do you want Stu?"

Lancaster: "Just a chat. Someone to talk to"

Farrell: "I've moved on, I have a new job, a new life. I'm not really allowed to talk to English people any more."

Lancaster: "How do you feel about England's win?"

Farrell: "What do you think?"

Lancaster: "I dont know. I dont know what to think anymore. I dont know how to feel. I dont think I know how to cry."

Farrell: "Have you been looking at the thread?"

Lancaster: "There's no point, it's too lat..."

Farrell: "Have you been looking at the thread?"

Lancaster: "A few times but...."

Farrell: "Just let it go, we can't go back"

Lancaster: "I can't help feeling if I'd read @koneguitarist 's views on Kvesic, maybe we could have..."

Farrell: "Just stop it man!"

Lancaster: " @lloyd would never have picked Alex Goode"

Farrell: "He's probably right"

Lancaster: "@gassage says you forced me to pick Owen"

Farrell: "Ignore him, that's not right."

Lancaster: "Do you think Eddie has been reading it?"

Farrell: "Well, obviously, why do you think England have suddenly become unbeatable?"

Lancaster: "We've been fools Andy. Bloody fools."

Farrell: "Don't call me again Stu. We have to move on."

Lancaster: I did rate Kvesic - I f**k rated him"

click

kjdowd

Gassage;1003865" said:

Lancaster: "Andy?"



Farrell: "What do you want Stu?"



Lancaster: "Just a chat. Someone to talk to"



Farrell: "I've moved on, I have a new job, a new life. I'm not really allowed to talk to English people any more."



Lancaster: "How do you feel about England's win?"



Farrell: "What do you think?"



Lancaster: "I dont know. I dont know what to think anymore. I dont know how to feel. I dont think I know how to cry."



Farrell: "Have you been looking at the thread?"



Lancaster: "There's no point, it's too lat..."



Farrell: "Have you been looking at the thread?"



Lancaster: "A few times but...."



Farrell: "Just let it go, we can't go back"



Lancaster: "I can't help feeling if I'd read @koneguitarist 's views on Kvesic, maybe we could have..."



Farrell: "Just stop it man!"



Lancaster: " @lloyd would never have picked Alex Goode"



Farrell: "He's probably right"



Lancaster: "@gassage says you forced me to pick Owen"



Farrell: "Ignore him, that's not right."



Lancaster: "Do you think Eddie has been reading it?"



Farrell: "Well, obviously, why do you think England have suddenly become unbeatable?"



Lancaster: "We've been fools Andy. Bloody fools."



Farrell: "Don't call me again Stu. We have to move on."



Lancaster: I did rate Kvesic - I f**k rated him"



click

Poor old Stu.

koneguitarist

@Gassage I do rate Kvesik, struggles at times with Gloucester, but with a solid pack of England, he would do well. Nice laugh, you have too much time on your hands.

lloyd

Tema v Italy:

1. Evans

2. Baldwin

3. Lee

4. Davies

5. Charteris

6. Lydiate (c)

8. Faletau

7. Tipuric

9. Webb

10. Biggar

11. Amos

12. Roberts

13. JDII

14. North

15. Williams

Cuthbert not dropped, injured apparently. Not sure what Baldwin has to do to get dropped, really fucked off with his constant inclusion, he's so far behing Owens it's untrue and he had a nightmare on Sat and Owens played very well.

Gatland's selections really piss me off. I'm aware of what he's done for us but it's become stale over the last few years. 

lloyd

Lydiate not exactly the most vocal of players so I'm hoping he steps that up a bit as Parrisse will be in the ref's ear all game.

exocet

Did you read the Martin Williams view of Saturdays game? His main observation did strike a chord with me - that being that Wales were playing very narrow (defensively) in order to counter the BV threat after his barrelling charges against Ireland. I did notice quite a few occasions where Jamie Roberts was sitting in 1st receiver position..........if that was the game plan, it was piss poor...still, all water under the bridge now.

Owens? What the hell is going on there? I'd rather have Goldilocks than Baldwin. Even though his lineout work is extremely dodgy, he is so committed everywhere else on the pitch. I was told by a fiend that Gatland fell out with Hibbard because he kept cropping up between 9 and 10 and when told, he refused to agree to follow orders. On Saturday, Baldwin popped up too often in the backline and cocked it up.

fretmeister

Francis has an 8 week ban.

Should have been only 2 for the recklessness.

lloyd

fretmeister said:

Francis has an 8 week ban.

Should have been only 2 for the recklessness.

That's not my view, the ruck was over, I've no idea why he'd put his hands there. I think he knows what he's doing.

exocet

lloyd said:

fretmeister said:

Francis has an 8 week ban.

Should have been only 2 for the recklessness.

That's not my view, the ruck was over, I've no idea why he'd put his hands there. I think he knows what he's doing.

From what I saw, the ruck was over and whether or not he intentionally raked someone is almost immaterial - flopping on top of a bunch of prone bodies served no useful purpose and should be discouraged !....I don't think he has what it takes to be a 1st class prop anyway.

scrumhalf

Sad news.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/seru-rabeni-passes-away-at-37/

fretmeister

Hartley's injured. Sitting out training. Fitness tests later in the week.

lloyd

RIP RABENI, SO YOUNG.

fretmeister

Marler cleared re: elbow as although he admitted the offence it would not have warranted a Red Card.

No word yet on the ethnic slur. Gatland said it was just banter, now he's getting flamed by Travellers for down playing it.

I get the feeling no one knows what to do with it.

Fretwired

fretmeister said:

Marler cleared re: elbow as although he admitted the offence it would not have warranted a Red Card.

No word yet on the ethnic slur. Gatland said it was just banter, now he's getting flamed by Travellers for down playing it.

I get the feeling no one knows what to do with it.

Marler made an apology which was accepted - I think Gatland is right. Marler should make a public apology to the traveller community and that should be the end of it. People are too quick to take offence .. use of the n-word is different.

fretmeister

Current Equality Act says it's the same.