The Rugby Union Thread

Bridgehouse

StanleyAccrington said:

Enthralling game. England players querying the rules made me chuckle. Don't fret you England fans......we will run in 2-3 tries in the last 10 mins.

Ey up, Nostradamus is on the FB..

digitalscream

Well, phew. 

Couple of interesting things - Italy weren't relying on Parisse in the first half, and they were making us look average. As soon as England figured out the tackle-only problem, Italy went back to their old ways and started going backwards.

Second, England playing at pace with fast handling and passes look incredibly good. I just wish they did it more often.

digitalscream

Another interesting thing...in the post-match commentary (and interviews), they seem to be suggesting that it wasn't a good match for the fans. I completely disagree...aside from being very interesting from a rules perspective in the first half (and the ref suddenly and unexpectedly coming out with the quote of the year), Italy's no-ruck tactic forced England to play at a much higher pace which made the second half a great spectacle.

StanleyAccrington

Bridgehouse said:

StanleyAccrington said:

Enthralling game. England players querying the rules made me chuckle. Don't fret you England fans......we will run in 2-3 tries in the last 10 mins.

Ey up, Nostradamus is on the FB..

Haha.....Only I didn't see those two England tries coming in the first 10 minutes of the second half......I'm  a failure!!

Gulliver

digitalscream

Yeah, I don't think Haskell's ever going to live that one down

Schnozz

Gulliver said:

Kudos to Haskell for persisting with his inquiry - Good to see him make a start at clearing them out around 30 mins in.

All things aside, I hope that's not a technique that gets adopted widely, as it made for some boring Rugby IMO. 

It really was like watching Jose Morinho's score and defend tactics.

digitalscream

Schnozz said:

Gulliver said:

Kudos to Haskell for persisting with his inquiry - Good to see him make a start at clearing them out around 30 mins in.

All things aside, I hope that's not a technique that gets adopted widely, as it made for some boring Rugby IMO. 

It really was like watching Jose Morinho's score and defend tactics.

To be totally fair to Haskell, he wasn't asking "What can I do?", but rather "Is it going to be legal if I do this?". That's a perfectly acceptable question to ask of a ref who's had time to prepare for exactly this eventuality.

I don't think we'll see it catch on much, because it makes a team very vulnerable to quicker rugby and leaves your players wildly out of position. Not only that, but it's very easy to get caught offside in all sorts of ways.

Rocker

What has gone wrong with the game of Rugby? I actually switched off the TV today during the England -v- Italy match. It was so boring. The game is dying on it's feet, all bash and no subtlety. Power power and more power. Who is responsible for this?

sev112

Most enthralling and exciting game I have watched in a long time

kjdowd

digitalscream said:

Schnozz said:

Gulliver said:

Kudos to Haskell for persisting with his inquiry - Good to see him make a start at clearing them out around 30 mins in.

All things aside, I hope that's not a technique that gets adopted widely, as it made for some boring Rugby IMO. 

It really was like watching Jose Morinho's score and defend tactics.

To be totally fair to Haskell, he wasn't asking "What can I do?", but rather "Is it going to be legal if I do this?". That's a perfectly acceptable question to ask of a ref who's had time to prepare for exactly this eventuality.

I don't think we'll see it catch on much, because it makes a team very vulnerable to quicker rugby and leaves your players wildly out of position. Not only that, but it's very easy to get caught offside in all sorts of ways.

Yeah exactly. There's a reason teams commit to the ruck and try to slow the ball down. I think the main advantage today for Italy was novelty and the fact that it flustered the England players, to the point where they lost focus on even basic, closed skills. The coach needs to talk to them about that - they were like under 12s complaining at the injustice of it all!

When they realised that quick ball was there for the taking, the Italian defence was easy to break down cos half of them were behind the England attack. 

It it was a fascinating game, but I don't think we'll see it widely repeated. 

Bridgehouse

Rocker said:

What has gone wrong with the game of Rugby? I actually switched off the TV today during the England -v- Italy match. It was so boring. The game is dying on it's feet, all bash and no subtlety. Power power and more power. Who is responsible for this?

I reckon you need a new TV - or a better Sky package. 

scrumhalf

I thought that was an interesting twist on a game of rugby. Eddie Jones has gone a bit overboard with his Teveor Chappell analogy, I think.

As for Hask asking the ref for clarification, at least it shows initiative and not waiting until half time to try and counter it.

kjdowd

Interesting article on ESPN suggests it could have been even worse (for England...) Apparently the rule was only tweaked this week to state that they couldn't play the 9 as it isn't in the spirt of the game.

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/18772409/how-italy-ruckless-masterplan-england-came-together-nearly-fell-apart

kjdowd

scrumhalf said:

I thought that was an interesting twist on a game of rugby. Eddie Jones has gone a bit overboard with his Teveor Chappell analogy, I think.

As for Hask asking the ref for clarification, at least it shows initiative and not waiting until half time to try and counter it.

Totally agree on the Haskell point, but he's just so easy to take the piss out of ...

digitalscream

Rocker said:

What has gone wrong with the game of Rugby? I actually switched off the TV today during the England -v- Italy match. It was so boring. The game is dying on it's feet, all bash and no subtlety. Power power and more power. Who is responsible for this?

That was your mistake. Watch the second half, totally different game; there was barely any physicality at all, it was all about the speed and skills.

crunchman

Going back to the Lions team, I think Anthony Watson is almost fit.  If he can get back to his best I think he's better than most of the wingers people have mentioned above.

digitalscream

kjdowd said:

Yeah exactly. There's a reason teams commit to the ruck and try to slow the ball down. I think the main advantage today for Italy was novelty and the fact that it flustered the England players, to the point where they lost focus on even basic, closed skills. The coach needs to talk to them about that - they were like under 12s complaining at the injustice of it all!

Yep...it reminded me of when they played the All Blacks in the 1995 World Cup, and the ABs switched the kickoff to the backs - seemed to totally confuse them. Too easy to focus on tradition, I guess, and it was brilliant to see a coach thinking outside the box for once...completely changed the face of the game we were expecting to see.

It's unlikely we'll see this tactic often, but we'll probably see teams do it every now and then just to keep the opponents on their toes.

kjdowd

What I do find ever so slightly amusing is the media coverage lauding the Italians and damning the English, in absolute (rather than relative) terms. The telegraph even score the Italians (starting 15s, in all fairness) at 100/150 vs 70 odd for England.

Ummmm - aren't we rather ignoring the fact that - despite some interesting tactics - they didn't take their chances, didn't slot their kicks and lost by 21 points?

I can understand strong criticism of England - they were very poor for much of the match, got very flustered by the Italian tactics and have indeed looked off colour for much of the 6N so far. I can even understand applauding - to some extent - the coaching team. But they lost to a poor England side by 21 points. 

koneguitarist

@kjdowd to a team ranked 13 places below them, with England the richest rugby nation in the world at home, you could say the Italians did well and England were poor. Ireland put 60points plus on them in Italy. 
But at the end of the day, all England needed was a bonus point win which they got. But if they lose to Ireland with Ireland's points and bonus points they have picked up it could be decisive, so Eddie Jones is rightly pissed off and you can say England should have done better. 
And before you say it, Wales were rubbish I know, and we have no excuses, Scotland were just better than us.