The Rugby Union Thread

Heartfeltdawn

digitalscream said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

You talk of rugby clubs running 8 sides on a Saturday and say it's because of an attempt to sanitise the game. If so, why are cricket sides dying on their arse as well? 

Because cricket is, by definition, a game of boredom tolerance. Its days were always numbered once the Internet hit the mainstream.

Yet American football keeps going...

Baseball, now there is an exercise in dullness.

scrumhalf

Fred Trueman on baseball: i went to a baseball game. We were there half the bloody night before some bugger hit the bloody thing.

rsvmark

exocet said:

Bollock grabbing has always gone on in Rugby, the difference here is that it was caught clearly on camera for all to see. When it's against the laws of the game and clearly seen at the time, the authorities couldn't simply ignore it. 

Just ask the french....

I disagree with @gassage here but respect his opinion as an ex player and journo. Imho the world continues to change and evolve, and tastes change. It’s more complex than just one sport, or where it is on telly box. Investment and excitement needs to be created in young people, and parents need to be engaged to encourage little Jonny or Suzy to swim, run, fight, catch.... and gain something in their development as a young person of value. If kids WANT to play that sport, and when adults support their child unconditionally, that is when you get participation.

 I don’t condone Marlers behaviour but he was winding up AWJ who has a reputation. He got caught. Take your medicine.... oh hang on. The frenchie who lamped a player got 3 weeks. That Manu tackle has mixed reactions, some for or against, but he got 4 weeks, and Marler gets 10. So this is a good example of perceived inconsistency, and therefore loss of respect/support as grass roots level. My son asked me....why is it better to punch someone than it is to try to wind up the opposition Dad? Is that acceptable?

koneguitarist

Gassage said:

koneguitarist said:

Gassage said:

Forgot to post my match report; it's objective and without bias:

This was a game where retrospectively the result seemed to matter not.

A wonderful display by England for 70 minutes, marred by 10 minutes of lunacy at the end, saw the hosts dispose of their Welsh visitors 33-30.

Let’s be honest about this; the scoreline flattered Wales in the same way wallpaper covers structural cracks. They were not at the races, and they were smashed on the gainline, destroyed in the scrummage and humiliated tactically.

The gulf between the two sides from 8 months ago in Cardiff was canyon deep and only a piece of genius just after half time, followed by some fortunate cards, engineered by the imaginative, very sharp-eyed and proud South African TMO, Marius Jonker and delivered under his instruction by on-field referee Ben O’Keefe, brought the scoreboard into respectful territory for the hapless Welsh team.

England’s victory was based upon three key ingredients.

England’s pack decimated their opposite numbers in the set piece, with Joe Marler giving Dillon Lewis an absolute schooling in the art of test rugby propping; the plump Welshman was completely unable to counter the muscular Marler’s control of height and power of forward direction and, in old term rugby parlance, was lucky to finish second in a two horse race.

Secondly, that physicality was also evident in the breakdown and gainline exchanges, where the craggy Cumbrian Mark Wilson continued where he left off in 2019, with a peerless display of pressure defence and scrapping, aided and abetted by the rest of the England forwards.

Thirdly, efficiency; every time England got the ball, so points followed. A possession stat of England’s 36% to Wales’ 64% tells us two things- firstly how efficient England’s attack is, and secondly, how confident they are in they are in the John Mitchell coached D, which allowed them to let Wales to have the ball and look to turn them over and strike. Wales managed to create just the one proper opportunity in 70 minutes and it was only when cards were brandished and English players were sent off, that they managed to stagger through the heroic defence of Eddie Jones’ 13 men.

Welsh woes are completely compounded by the predictability of their midfield. When you’ve got the fridge-like hands of Dan Biggar and Hadleigh Parks in the receiver positions, you could have Cullen and Lomu outside them and they’d not see the ball all day.

The imaginative poach of talented English youngster Nick Tompkins has allowed Wales some go forward this season and he was exceptional again, but it says a lot about the state of the Welsh youth system when their three quarters fielded two Englishmen and a Kiwi journeyman. Their team relies upon regular raiding of others’ stocks and it must be a concern that nine out of the 23 players on the team sheet on Saturday were recruited artificially rather than developed naturally.

Despite many infringements and reckless tackles by the men in red, one of which saw Hadleigh Parkes almost decapitate English centre Manu Tuilagi, it seems unthinkable that a moment of intended humour from England’s stoical loosehead, Joe Marler, has dominated the headlines.

For sure, the game doesn’t need to see what the prop did, but the lack of reaction and outcome from the gesture showed that at worst, the incident was silly, at best it was innocuous. Alun Wyn Jones said as much himself, trying desperately to avoid the questioning of tabloid generalists at the press conference, until he finally gave the standard answer and said “World Rugby will deal with it”. Hardly the crime of the century given the state of Tuilagi’s forehead and Johnny May’s bulging and bruised temple, but undoubtedly, the faux media furore will sell a few more redtops in Haverfordwest and Llanfair Caereinion.

In the grand scheme of things, England will be quietly happy and very pleased with their day at the office. Jones saw many things go well- the display of Henry Slade at fullback, the ongoing excellence of the midfield and the absolute reliability of Wilson. More frustratingly, England now won’t play until the summer and the team would have relished a run out in Rome. England’s end of season score card will have a pretty big tick for most in the game. They’ve lost world class players through injury, learned a lesson in Paris, but have emerged as the most consistent side in the competition.

For Wales, there was little to be proud of, not least the bad taste that the post-match shenanigans has left. They were poor in contact and conduct and the scoreline flattered them greatly. One hopes a greater degree of self-honesty will be seen in their analysis than was shown in the press this week.

There is one small take out for all to remember though; the hotly promoted Welsh wine might be best avoided this season- the fruit is said to be of a particularly acidic nature.

Such a one sided game, in the effect England went out of their way to infringe, intimidate and take players out off the ball. Some of the English players notably Farrell was incredibly lucky to stay on the field, a stronger ref would have carded him for the shove on Biggar, and the forearm in face Of another player,  his conduct as a captain was shocking. 

When SA played like that they were condemned, but Eddie Jones says it’s rugby. Bloke is a clown and was rightly called in by RFU for his remarks. 

Wales came 2nd best in physicality, foul play wins but sadly England had enough skill to win legally, and keep their players on the pitch and beat Wales with a higher score. 
if you’re proud of that, great. 

1) Biggar walked into his line. Watch carefully.

2) Forearm by Sanjay on Curry?

3) Neck roll on Curry?

4) Clear out of Farrell?

5) Parkes high tackle on Manu?

Seriously, get some perspective.

Come on, be honest, since when has running blocking lines allowed opposition to take players out, it happens at every high ball, defending players protect the catcher by standing in front. That doesn’t allow them to be taken out. 

Neck roll, sorry didn’t realise curry’s head was attached to his armpits. 

Parkes was high, but adjusted down as Tuilagi ducking. Parkes used arms, on a bad day a yellow card. 

Didn’t see forearm by Sanjay? 

Gassage

@rsvmark ;

When the PC brigade weren't trying to sanitise rugby, Walsall ran 8 teams on a Sat.

Now, they run 2.

How's that 'Investment and excitement needs to be created in young people' going?

fields5069

Bloody hell, Newport seemed to be full of kilts yesterday, on their way to Cardiff. Obviously most Scots were already down in Wales for the game, Cardiff must have been heaving.

koneguitarist

Gassage said:

@rsvmark ;

When the PC brigade weren't trying to sanitise rugby, Walsall ran 8 teams on a Sat.

Now, they run 2.

How's that 'Investment and excitement needs to be created in young people' going?

The game has changed a huge amount in last 30 years and so has youngsters interests. The rise of PC Gaming and both parents working means less coaches and juniors for rugby training. Schools are doing less PE as well. 

But the game itself is getting too dangerous, the forwards now are running as fast as the backs were back in 80s. Yet fitter faster and heavier. The rugby league influence has hurt union too due to man and ball tackles and hitting chest and upwards to stop offloads.
the extra players on the bench mean, just when the game is starting to break up and you are getting on top, more forwards are coming off the bench to keep up impacts and speed of the game. 

Some players are carrying too much muscle for their frame size, knowing they only have to play 55 mins not 80. Injuries are getting more common, players are retiring earlier. 

Something has to give. 

crunchman

koneguitarist said:

Gassage said:

@rsvmark ;;;

When the PC brigade weren't trying to sanitise rugby, Walsall ran 8 teams on a Sat.

Now, they run 2.

How's that 'Investment and excitement needs to be created in young people' going?

The game has changed a huge amount in last 30 years and so has youngsters interests. The rise of PC Gaming and both parents working means less coaches and juniors for rugby training. Schools are doing less PE as well. 

But the game itself is getting too dangerous, the forwards now are running as fast as the backs were back in 80s. Yet fitter faster and heavier. The rugby league influence has hurt union too due to man and ball tackles and hitting chest and upwards to stop offloads.
the extra players on the bench mean, just when the game is starting to break up and you are getting on top, more forwards are coming off the bench to keep up impacts and speed of the game. 

Some players are carrying too much muscle for their frame size, knowing they only have to play 55 mins not 80. Injuries are getting more common, players are retiring earlier. 

Something has to give. 

They need to have a bench like football, where you can only use 3 of them.  If a front row forward gets injured after you have used 3, then you can substitute him, but he would have to miss the next match (or two).  Coaches would then save the subsitutions for injuries, rather than tactical.

Players would have to be lighter, with more cardio fitness, to last 80 minutes.  That should reduce the impact of the collisions as well.  It's a win win.

Less substitutes would help at lower levels as well.  My brother still plays for Folkestone thirds (at 48), but he's moaning that they have had to  cancel quite a few games this season as they can't get a team.  A lot of the problem is that the firsts and seconds both take 6 subs to matches.  That doesn't leave enoguh players available for the thirds.

rsvmark

Gassage said:

@rsvmark ;

When the PC brigade weren't trying to sanitise rugby, Walsall ran 8 teams on a Sat.

Now, they run 2.

How's that 'Investment and excitement needs to be created in young people' going?

That’s kind of my point. But it’s not about senior rugby right now. Those players were minis and juniors 20 years ago. It’s about what’s happening at mini and junior level now and player retention of 14-18yo. The PlayStation generation need to be convinced to go out and roll about in the fresh air, and parents need to be sold on the effort to get up on a Sunday and hang about on the touch line. I loved it but it’s not for everyone.

To be fair, in my area, the mini and junior scene is good. It’s about 12/13/14 that players drop out ime. Clashes with football, split households, hormones etc... there’s many reasons why numbers start to drop off. But my point remains, the rfu support was 9/10ths of fuck all. 

barnstorm

rsvmark said:
It’s about 12/13/14 that players drop out ime.

 My very distant memory of the game at that age is that kids turned up to training having gained three stone and a beard almost overnight. It can be hard to get smaller players to stick around to the point where they catch up physically.

 Interesting, though, that weight classes at that age in NZ cause big kids to give up, because they hate being bumped up a class and separated from their friends.

No idea if we’re any closer to seeing 85kg rugby here, but I know lots of people who would have played into their 30s if it had been an option.

Heartfeltdawn

Gassage said:

@rsvmark ;

When the PC brigade weren't trying to sanitise rugby, Walsall ran 8 teams on a Sat.

Now, they run 2.

How's that 'Investment and excitement needs to be created in young people' going?

This decrease in team sports in the young goes across the Atlantic as well. Compare rugby dropoffs to youngsters playing tackle football for instance. 

https://syncthink.com/2019/03/12/blog-no-brainer-youth-sports-participation-rates/

Your insistence that it's just PC interfering that is fucking everything up actually needs some evidence to support it. In the internet era, kids play less team sports full bloody stop. When the most popular sport of football has seen a drop in recent years despite having footie on pay and state TV and having such a big media profile, then you can't put that down to mimsy PC types. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/934866/football-participation-uk/

Gassage

Well, things are on the up.

Apparently not one single reported incident of foul play nor any citings last weekend.

crunchman

Gassage said:

Well, things are on the up.

Apparently not one single reported incident of foul play nor any citings last weekend.

I'm sure the Welsh will find something to moan about.

fields5069

I hated mini rugby. And that twat Stuart Barnes can suck my cock. It was probably because of his shining light that my school was so behind the times compared with all the other Newport schools. He was head boy at the time and I'm guessing already playing senior rugby, and we had to endure it for 2 years before being able to play football.

Gassage

Oh dear...

https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/rugby-news-lawrence-dallaglio-highclass-hookers-brothel-cocaine-court-hears-accusations-about-english-great/news-story/5449971e82c20cd8ef6a5d240e5c82f0?fbclid=IwAR0ja-o-7DlWpWyy2pOlvL1Xu-yd9Aitmckwe8AZwCXBvQsLaTwPSCqCgLw

crunchman

Made me laugh:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52424599

Gassage

Right: Gass is bored. So...

Guitar and bass XV

15. EVH- fireworks, pace and innovation
14. Prince- have you seen his footwork?
13. Brian May- the ultimate artist and finisher
12. Eric Clapton- the rock
11. Jimi Hendrix- huge, frightening and changed the game forever

10. John Lennon …and….
9. Paul McCartney – the greatest partnership of all time.

1 Yngwie J Malmsteen- his bulk belies his ability to shred.
2 Mark Knopfler- more hooks than any player alive.
3. BB King- economy of movement but thick and powerful.
4. Kris Noveselick- 6’8” of sheer oomph

5. Vince Gill- 6'5"- specialist in pickin' off the line out.

6. JJ Burnel- the hardest scrapper around with the biggest 'thump' in history.

7. David Gilmour- the unseen glue of everything musical and comfortably scrums....

8. Roger Waters- the arch-orchestrator, the visionary, and at 6’3” a great line out option.

drofluf

Well personally I’d have put Gilmour at 7....

Gassage

drofluf said:

Well personally I’d have put Gilmour at 7....

He can certainly Comfortably Scrum.....

MagicPigDetective

Cue Welsh outrage!

I suggest Roger Glover (6?): laying a solid foundation for the flair players