The Rugby Union Thread

digitalscream

@Gassage - I'd suggest Nuno as a utility replacement, on the grounds that he's better than most people at just about everything and can play convincingly in any position.

Gassage

I've put 6'5" Vince Gill in the side at lock- for his ability in 'pickin off' the line out. Les Paul is utility sub.

Gassage

digitalscream said:

@Gassage - I'd suggest Nuno as a utility replacement, on the grounds that he's better than most people at just about everything and can play convincingly in any position.

yep, and Nile Rodgers as the scrum-half replacement in case we need to up the tempo and rhythm.

Gassage

Question- should we have Cucurillo in for his tackle abilities?

Blaendulais

Gassage said:

Question- should we have Cucurillo in for his tackle abilities?

What about involving Jimmy Page to get the Under 13 girls involved?

Or Keith Richards to inject some speed?

scrumhalf

Leslie West, pre-illness, has to be in the front row. I'd suggest he replaces Yngwie who would surely be reffed out of it for engaging far more quickly than anyone else. 

hywelg

scrumhalf said:

Leslie West, pre-illness, has to be in the front row. I'd suggest he replaces Yngwie who would surely be reffed out of it for engaging far more quickly than anyone else. 

Along with Buddy Whittington, and Gary Moore  as hooker as he looks the part.

Gassage

Wish me luck forum rugggerbuggers-

I have a one hour zoom interview at 3pm with the legend and all round top man that is Sergio Parisse.

I'm like a giggling teenager.

digitalscream

Gassage said:

Wish me luck forum rugggerbuggers-

I have a one hour zoom interview at 3pm with the legend and all round top man that is Sergio Parisse.

I'm like a giggling teenager.

Let's face it...there's going to be very little interviewing going on.

tbm

Gassage said:

Wish me luck forum rugggerbuggers-

I have a one hour zoom interview at 3pm with the legend and all round top man that is Sergio Parisse.

I'm like a giggling teenager.

Good luck Gas man!

Nitefly

... and in other news, naughty Sarries - again!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52583357

Gassage

Well, an hour of the great man's time and the biggest piece of news I'll give you is a) he's signed with Toulon to play to 38 and b) he's available for the next Italian game if selected. (he's negotiated a clause for one more international game.)

Gassage

All: The Government have annouced that you are now allowed to play sport but only WITH MEMBERS OF YOUR OWN FAMILY.

Accordingly, Cinderford versus Lydney will be going ahead on Friday night as planned.

Gassage

So, SLSC: Here's my formal take:

https://www.planetrugby.com/opinion-swing-low-a-distraction-from-rfu-hypocrisy/

The RFU commented to Planet Rugby recently “The RFU has stated we need to do more to achieve diversity and we are determined to accelerate change and grow awareness. The Swing Low Sweet Chariot song has long been part of the culture of rugby and is sung by many who have no awareness of its origins or its sensitivities. We are reviewing its historical context and our role in educating fans to make informed decisions.” The Swing Low Sweet Chariot review has certainly caused some debate, but it appears to be bizarre call by England Rugby, bearing in mind that the song’s origins show us that it’s an African American spiritual song, the earliest known recording of which was in 1909, by the Fisk Jubilee Singers of Fisk University.

Let’s just examine the real history; in 2002, the Library of Congress went as far as honouring the song as one of 50 recordings chosen to be added to the National Recording Registry. It was also included in the list of Songs of the Century, by the Recording Industry Association of America and the National Endowment for the Arts. So, as a song, it’s artistically and culturally celebrated, and its meaning is revered as a reference point of unacceptable times.

Indeed, so offensive was the song to the right wing regime of Germany that in 1939, Germany's Reich Music Examination Officeadded the song to a listing of "undesired and harmful" musical works. The song then enjoyed a resurgence during the 1960s Civil Rights struggle and the folk revival; it was performed by a number of artists, perhaps the most famous performance during this period was that by Joan Baez during the legendary 1969 Woodstock festival.

From the above, we can glean that the only group of people in history to find it offensive, other than the RFU Council, is a bunch of all-white fascist dictators.

The alternative rugby version of the song was developed from the concept that a series of hand-mime gestures, (all of which are agnostic in regards to race, creed and colour), were created; a song that every young rugby player could learn and subsequently be fined by a Kangaroo Court should he or she not segue the gestures correctly to the lyrics.

Yet, for some reason, if an England Rugby supporter sings it, it appears to be offensive to the RFU, despite the gesture being as potentially culturally unifying and respectful of cultural mismatching as taking a knee in respect of Black Lives Matter. To understand the lyrics and to resonate with the struggles of the people of those times is to question it, to enlighten oneself and for that alone, #BLM has served an amazing purpose already.

Gassage

2/2

We also now need to look at the RFU’s track record in BAME employment. Despite their recent announcement regarding a review of their record in employment discrimination, it’s a fact that out of 450 employed staff, not one single ethnic person has reached senior management. Ever.

In 2012, out of those 450 employees based at Twickenham, there were precisely two ethnic members. Out of 53 Youth Development Officers on their staff, only two were of a BAME background. The RFU Council remained a closed door of ethnicity until 2015, when the Government Funding requirements made them create a new role for one person; Maggie Alphonsi. When Ugo Monye and his brother visited the Spirit Of Rugby, they reflected that they were the only BAME people in the room that were not serving food. Yet in their blissful ignorance the RFU believe that the only racial issue they have is the lyrics of a song,

The lyrics are now more important than ever; with an England side that has something approaching a 50/50 split in racial makeup, the song celebrates the plight and struggle of times gone by; it is, in itself, a litmus of white privilege and the debate has opened up an educational process of understanding just what these people went through in order to improve their hopes, spirits and lives. In writing this piece, the author has himself looked inwardly and deeply at the deep privilege enjoyed purely though skin colour. That alone tells you that to sing it and understand it is far more important than using it as a self-aggrandising metaphor for the lack of culture change within the organisation looking to condemn it.

Don’t forget, this is the very same England Rugby that find it totally appropriate to destroy the hushed tension before kick-off, the breathless anticipation of the first hit, the first collision and the first run, with a booming rendition of Lose Yourself by Eminem which alludes to shooting and features the words ‘motherf***er’ clearly within in it. Just what we want for the school parties and kids to listen to and to take out as a touchpoint for rugby.

The simple fact is, the leadership of the Marketing and Communications department at Twickenham know nothing about rugby and even less about racial integration. They have spent the last 20 years diluting every unique selling point and cultural experience of an international day, and, because of their lack of understanding of rugby’s differentiation points, have used the soccer experience as some form of common denominator to absolutely remove any competitive edge that rugby has.

In short, they are commoditising an offering that needs differentiation, a disastrous strategy and one that is proven by the crippling losses the Union has suffered.

Their latest wheeze is to further remove differentiation by employing Umbro, a company who at the time of appointment, has absolutely no rugby ball, no rugby product and no rugby reference on their website, to deliver England’s replica kit sales.

Now Umbro are synonymous with a couple of things; football and bargain bin discounts at Sports Direct, and is coupled with the notion that the Umbro emblazoned England football shirt is the casual dress of choice for a large part of the Britain First Far Right types that have permeated the news feeds in recent times, an irony lost on those condemning song lyrics.

At the core of this, the RFU’s strategy is all about them making money for someone that’s not fully defined. However, when you examine the accounts of the business and find that the basic salaries of the Executive are north of £200k per person, then you’d be excused for the cynical view that they’re making money to keep their own inflated salaries (and egos) nice and cosy for themselves.

But despite these massive salaries, grass roots game has never been more starved of cash, identity or communication. Club sides that used to run seven teams on a Saturday now run three, because the player interest, match day official numbers and coaching numbers are diminishing quicker than an England scrum against the Springboks.

Every part of Twickenham has been monetised to the lowest common denominator; the West Car Park used to be a thriving landscape of originality, fun and differentiated activity. Now, it’s fast food, plastic cups and chip wrappers with all of the rugby experience cachet removed forever. The Barbour brigade may have been one extreme, but the incoming Umbro crowds appear to be completely the other extreme, and balance of experience combined with choice is needed.

As long as the Union continue to employ leaders that have no understanding of any form of culture and no connectivity to the grass roots game this will continue and the continued false sanitisation of the sport will only result in more failure for the RFU, and failure on a seismic level.

In short, Swing Low has been made a convenient scape goat for bigger underlying problems in the organisation of racism, white privilege and lack of diversity that have existed and continued to exist within the RFU.

Blaendulais

Gassage said:

2/2

We also now need to look at the RFU’s track record in BAME employment. Despite their recent announcement regarding a review of their record in employment discrimination, it’s a fact that out of 450 employed staff, not one single ethnic person has reached senior management. Ever.

In 2012, out of those 450 employees based at Twickenham, there were precisely two ethnic members. Out of 53 Youth Development Officers on their staff, only two were of a BAME background. The RFU Council remained a closed door of ethnicity until 2015, when the Government Funding requirements made them create a new role for one person; Maggie Alphonsi. When Ugo Monye and his brother visited the Spirit Of Rugby, they reflected that they were the only BAME people in the room that were not serving food. Yet in their blissful ignorance the RFU believe that the only racial issue they have is the lyrics of a song,

The lyrics are now more important than ever; with an England side that has something approaching a 50/50 split in racial makeup, the song celebrates the plight and struggle of times gone by; it is, in itself, a litmus of white privilege and the debate has opened up an educational process of understanding just what these people went through in order to improve their hopes, spirits and lives. In writing this piece, the author has himself looked inwardly and deeply at the deep privilege enjoyed purely though skin colour. That alone tells you that to sing it and understand it is far more important than using it as a self-aggrandising metaphor for the lack of culture change within the organisation looking to condemn it.

Don’t forget, this is the very same England Rugby that find it totally appropriate to destroy the hushed tension before kick-off, the breathless anticipation of the first hit, the first collision and the first run, with a booming rendition of Lose Yourself by Eminem which alludes to shooting and features the words ‘motherf***er’ clearly within in it. Just what we want for the school parties and kids to listen to and to take out as a touchpoint for rugby.

The simple fact is, the leadership of the Marketing and Communications department at Twickenham know nothing about rugby and even less about racial integration. They have spent the last 20 years diluting every unique selling point and cultural experience of an international day, and, because of their lack of understanding of rugby’s differentiation points, have used the soccer experience as some form of common denominator to absolutely remove any competitive edge that rugby has.

In short, they are commoditising an offering that needs differentiation, a disastrous strategy and one that is proven by the crippling losses the Union has suffered.

Their latest wheeze is to further remove differentiation by employing Umbro, a company who at the time of appointment, has absolutely no rugby ball, no rugby product and no rugby reference on their website, to deliver England’s replica kit sales.

Now Umbro are synonymous with a couple of things; football and bargain bin discounts at Sports Direct, and is coupled with the notion that the Umbro emblazoned England football shirt is the casual dress of choice for a large part of the Britain First Far Right types that have permeated the news feeds in recent times, an irony lost on those condemning song lyrics.

At the core of this, the RFU’s strategy is all about them making money for someone that’s not fully defined. However, when you examine the accounts of the business and find that the basic salaries of the Executive are north of £200k per person, then you’d be excused for the cynical view that they’re making money to keep their own inflated salaries (and egos) nice and cosy for themselves.

But despite these massive salaries, grass roots game has never been more starved of cash, identity or communication. Club sides that used to run seven teams on a Saturday now run three, because the player interest, match day official numbers and coaching numbers are diminishing quicker than an England scrum against the Springboks.

Every part of Twickenham has been monetised to the lowest common denominator; the West Car Park used to be a thriving landscape of originality, fun and differentiated activity. Now, it’s fast food, plastic cups and chip wrappers with all of the rugby experience cachet removed forever. The Barbour brigade may have been one extreme, but the incoming Umbro crowds appear to be completely the other extreme, and balance of experience combined with choice is needed.

As long as the Union continue to employ leaders that have no understanding of any form of culture and no connectivity to the grass roots game this will continue and the continued false sanitisation of the sport will only result in more failure for the RFU, and failure on a seismic level.

In short, Swing Low has been made a convenient scape goat for bigger underlying problems in the organisation of racism, white privilege and lack of diversity that have existed and continued to exist within the RFU.

You have hit the nail quite decently and firmly on the head

rsvmark

@gassage Well,said James

Fretwired

Gassage said:

2/2

In short, Swing Low has been made a convenient scape goat for bigger underlying problems in the organisation of racism, white privilege and lack of diversity that have existed and continued to exist within the RFU.

I agree with most of what you have written.

However, Swing low is an awful song and the quicker it's dumped the better. Flower of Scotland is also suspect given it's anti-English lyrics - a good tune though. Maybe change the lyrics.

As for white privilege and the lack of BAME representation at the RFU why wasn't this brought up years ago? The current criticism smells of climbing on a bandwagon .. had a black man in the USA not been killed by a cop would we be having this conversation?  No we wouldn't - it would be business as usual. 

The average crowd at Twickenham for an England game is about 95% white and middle/upper class, and yet the England team isn't. Why isn't the RFU building a broader base of support?

Rugby in England is run by an small white elite. Maro Itoje was taught by my niece at St George's in Harpenden - he was well-liked, talented but was poached on a scholarship to Harrow. An elite school with money wins again. 

Amateur rugby is dying. My old club can barely field a first XV - when I played in the 1970's we had five teams including a vets team. But, none of the local schools play rugby any more - it's seen as dangerous and the preserve of a middle/upper class elite. So the future is bleak. Apparently more kids where I live play lacrosse than rugby. Sad.

Gassage

rsvmark said:

@gassage Well,said James

Mark, you know it's unlike me to make a deal out of discrimination....

scrumhalf

The RFU have done a decent job of bringing the game to the section of the public that was easy to get to. Full houses for internationals, premiership crowds thriving. 

They haven't done enough to capture the huge part of the country that isn't easy to get to. The perception of those people is that it's still a game for toffs.