The Rugby Union Thread

camf

Excellent work!

sev112

Double  movement for the South African try ....

bitter,  me ...?


 Seriously have a look at it again in sloe motion


having said that, great Scottish oeformance:)


obvious difference is that Scotland kicked and chased and won nearly all their kicks and that gave them so much possession and position.  engkand’s kick and chases were woeful

tweedphan

Was Farrell playing ? Or just watching until he had a kick at goal ?

ewal

cj73 said:

Aye but I’m sending them the laundry bill for that drop goal attempt 

Nearly Australia in the WC quarter final all over again...

scrumhalf

tweedphan said:

Was Farrell playing ? Or just watching until he had a kick at goal ?

He was picked and on the field. As to whether or not he was playing is a matter of conjecture.

He's picked at 10 but hasn't the vision to play there, but he plays for Saracens. Daly is not a full back but he plays for Saracens.

We have two decent wingers who spend the game watching the ball get hoofed downfield. 

If a wooden spoon is what it takes to get rid of Jones, so be it. 

Gulliver

Eddie Jones is being quizzed by Trading Standards for describing that performance as 'top flight rugby' 

Schnozz

I wasn't the least bit upset that England lost and I don't think I would have been excited if I was supporting Scotland. I couldn't keep my attention on it, it was just messy. I'm pleased I didn't watch the France vs Italy game and I just hope tomorrow is more entertaining.

crunchman

Gulliver said:

Eddie Jones is being quizzed by Trading Standards for describing that performance as 'top flight rugby' 

We need a combined LOLWiz button.

England were awful.  I haven't seen a performance that bad for years.

VimFuego

It's weird, but the sarries contingent looked like a group of players who hadn't played any competitive rugby for nearly 2 months, can't think why. Still, at least EJ is picking on form and not reputation. Thankfully, they only made up a 1/3rd of the starting 15, so wouldn't have had much effect on the team.
EDIT: on a more serious note, if the performance doesn't pick up noticeably we could end up losing this year, thank god italy are there.

Neill

ewal said:

George Turner 3rd choice hooker - didn't lose a lineout. That sort of characterised Scotland's performance - they just didn't make the individual mistakes, mis-throws, knock-ons, over-ambitious touch finders (thinking of you Hoggie), we've come to expect. Will enjoy it this evening, but means nothing if they don't back it up with more wins.

As an Englishman living in Scotland I tend to have divided loyalties these days, but the danger with Scotland is that, like the Welsh who really only care about beating England, they get this win out of all proportion.  I think they can back it up though, in fact I think it's Scotland or France for the title.

England desperately need to sort out their midfield - Jones blamed lack of possession for inactivity in the back line but this has been a characteristic of their game for some time now.  Too much possession is kicked away, it's their own fault.  All England need to do is put Watson Daly or May in space but they make it look so hard.  

wesker123

Maguire was terrible!! 

digitalscream

Neill said:

England desperately need to sort out their midfield - Jones blamed lack of possession for inactivity in the back line but this has been a characteristic of their game for some time now.  Too much possession is kicked away, it's their own fault.  All England need to do is put Watson Daly or May in space but they make it look so hard.  

What kills me is the utter inability to adapt. I mean...they managed to reclaim one kick in the entire match (perhaps two), so where exactly was the benefit of getting a tiny bit of possession, half-heartedly passing for a couple of phases and then kicking it to the opposition?

Almost without exception, every time England kicked it, 30 seconds later they've lost significant amounts of territory and they're back in their own 22. When you're trying to play a game with around 30% possession, any idiot can see that's a strategy that doesn't result in scoring points.

This is emblematic of everything that's been wrong with England's approach since Eddie Jones took over - they simply cannot play what's in front of them. They stick to the game plan they've been given and standard/traditional responses to the limited stimulus of "Where are we on the pitch?". That's it. They don't pay any attention to what's happening in front of them, or how the opposition are changing their approach throughout the match...they just do the same thing over and over. They're so damn predictable that the only way they can ever win matches is by hoping they can out-muscle the opposition, because every other team knows exactly what they're going to do at any given point.

It's like the England training camps are just Rugby For Beginners, and that's all they know to do.

It's getting quite embarrassing.

VimFuego

TBF, EJ has said on a number of occasions that Rugby is in a defensive phase, it's just that no one told Scotland this. We can't be held responsible if they didn't read the memo.

Fretwired

The best team won - awesome defence from Scotland and woeful from England as the penalty count racked up. The only issue I can see for Scotland going forward is the lack of points for all the possession - a number of kicks were missed as well. They should have hammered England. The Scots dominated England - I don't recall England looking like they were going to score a try and yet the Scots only won by 5 points. OK the weather was bad towards the end but even so to win the Championship you need to turn possession into points.

England had no onfield leaders (as a neutral you'd have been hard-pressed to spot England's captain such was his anonymity) and no plan B, or even an offensive game plan - did May get a chance to run at the Scottish defence? On this performance, Italy must fancy their chances against England .. :-)

BluesLover

I agree, at the end of the game I thought  why weren't the Scots 30 points ahead?

digitalscream

BluesLover said:

I agree, at the end of the game I thought  why weren't the Scots 30 points ahead?

Indeed - if we'd been playing Wales, Ireland or France it would've been a cricket score.

exocet

digitalscream said:

BluesLover said:

I agree, at the end of the game I thought  why weren't the Scots 30 points ahead?

Indeed - if we'd been playing Wales, Ireland or France it would've been a cricket score.

I wish that statement were true but I'd remove Wales from the list, we're out if the running for the next 2 years at least.

Back to England and leadership. I'm old school, always prefer the captain to be in the pack. I also don't rate Itojes' credentials for being a captain in near future. Great player but I don't think he's got what it takes to lead when the team is up against it.

fretmeister

Farrell didn’t have a plan B in the RWC final either. He never does. Just keeps trying the same thing until the final whistle.

Should have picked pretty much any prem players who have actually played in the last 2 months.
Or maybe some from Ealing as they keep beating Sarries in the championship.

fretmeister

digitalscream said:

BluesLover said:

I agree, at the end of the game I thought  why weren't the Scots 30 points ahead?

Indeed - if we'd been playing Wales, Ireland or France it would've been a cricket score.

Steady, we might have drawn with Italy!

sev112

digitalscream said:

Neill said:

England desperately need to sort out their midfield - Jones blamed lack of possession for inactivity in the back line but this has been a characteristic of their game for some time now.  Too much possession is kicked away, it's their own fault.  All England need to do is put Watson Daly or May in space but they make it look so hard.  

What kills me is the utter inability to adapt. I mean...they managed to reclaim one kick in the entire match (perhaps two), so where exactly was the benefit of getting a tiny bit of possession, half-heartedly passing for a couple of phases and then kicking it to the opposition?

Almost without exception, every time England kicked it, 30 seconds later they've lost significant amounts of territory and they're back in their own 22. When you're trying to play a game with around 30% possession, any idiot can see that's a strategy that doesn't result in scoring points.

This is emblematic of everything that's been wrong with England's approach since Eddie Jones took over - they simply cannot play what's in front of them. They stick to the game plan they've been given and standard/traditional responses to the limited stimulus of "Where are we on the pitch?". That's it.

The point about kicking and chasing yesterday you are spot on, absolutely, and I think this is what meant the game played as it did.

but I disagree that this is an EJ thing - that charge has been laid at every England team and coach since I started watching in the early 1980s, including Woodward.

The reason they continue to do this, I think, is because it has proven to be successful in doing so.  4 World Cup finals suggests so.   

Scotland, Wales, Ireland fans and commentators continue to berate England for not playing “throw it around and running” rugby, yet you get a few semi finals at best.  

Scotland beat England yesterday because the played an England game better than England did, and very well they did too at it.  plus hubris in picking too many Saracens players for their first game in ages - where were we particularly crap - throwing in line outs and fly half.
oh and having 2 props who were either not good enough, or just completely bested on the day.

it’s only a theory though