The Rugby Union Thread

koneguitarist

I thought it was a knock on myself, but Andy Goode old Wasps and Leicester fly half called it no knock on. TMO and refs debated it. It stood according to laws. The kick from Biggar was dodgy though, but we took a quick one against Ireland like that years ago and it stood, with Stephen Jones going over. It’s happened against us as well. Never turn your back on play. 

I do think there is some issues with the English squad though. Sam Simmonds is on fire can’t get in side. Farrell is turning into a liability with his attitude and lack of leadership, think he may have played himself out of Lions on the performances this year. Daly, should be on bench with Watson as FB. Eddie Jones with biggest squad should be looking for more players to test. If Ford is injured then Farrell is 10, who is the best 12 in England, more importantly who are the other 9-10 players for 2023 RWC 

MagicPigDetective

Isn’t it the same as running, dropping the ball in the air in front of you and kicking it, which is always allowed. The fact it’s deliberate or not, I assume the rules make no distinction, therefore it was not a knock on. 

koneguitarist

Looking forward to Gassage verdict on game!

Fretwired

koneguitarist said:

I thought it was a knock on myself, but Andy Goode old Wasps and Leicester fly half called it no knock on.

Nigel Owens begs to differ - I'll take his view as the best ref in the world.

'It's 100 per cent a knock on!' Nigel Owens explains exactly why Wales v England ref Pascal Gauzere got BOTH tries wrong.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/its-100-per-cent-knock-19932005.amp

p90fool

Fretwired said:

koneguitarist said:

I thought it was a knock on myself, but Andy Goode old Wasps and Leicester fly half called it no knock on.

Nigel Owens begs to differ - I'll take his view as the best ref in the world.

Didn't Nige have backtrack on his opinion on Johnny May's try last weekend?

p90fool

The point for me is that in the spirit of the game it's obviously a knock on, if not by the letter of the law. 

But whatever, England were fairly outplayed in the end and Wales were good for the win. 

digitalscream

If there's any silver lining, it's that England are looking at a 5th place finish. That means we've actually got a chance of Eddie Jones either re-thinking his approach, or buggering off and letting somebody else sort the mess out.

It's a slim chance, but it's a chance nonetheless.

Neill

digitalscream said:

If there's any silver lining, it's that England are looking at a 5th place finish. That means we've actually got a chance of Eddie Jones either re-thinking his approach, or buggering off and letting somebody else sort the mess out.

It's a slim chance, but it's a chance nonetheless.

That's what I'm hoping.  It's often said one definition of insanity is repeating the same action but expecting a different result.  This is Eddie Jones.   What's the betting he fields near enough the same side against France.  Assuming they sort out their Covid issues I shudder to think what the French are going to do to us in a fortnight.

Jalapeno

Crap Reffing, but Wales still deserved that win, England discipline was appalling.

koneguitarist

digitalscream said:

If there's any silver lining, it's that England are looking at a 5th place finish. That means we've actually got a chance of Eddie Jones either re-thinking his approach, or buggering off and letting somebody else sort the mess out.

It's a slim chance, but it's a chance nonetheless.

Don’t know, think England will beat Ireland, could beat France yet. Ireland have only beaten Italy, and have two tough games to come. Scotland have beaten England but lost, who knows when French game will be rearranged. 

sev112

I really don’t mind England having runs of bad form, it has happened before.  Same thing happened in the build up to last World Cup.  Timing is everything.   You don’t become bad okayers and coaches overnight.  It’s just that all the other teams have come up to a huger standard, have worked out tactics etc.  And good luck to them. Makes watching rugby fun.  I remain confident that England will come again soon with or without the same players and coaches.  

What I would really like is to see another “”UK”team in a final of a World Cup.  A France “UK” final  is what I’d love to see next time round, and I don’t mind who it is

scrumhalf

Jones seems to be trying to get the players who have played no club rugby fit by playing international rugby whilst ignoring players who have been playing well for their clubs. 

Neill

scrumhalf said:

Jones seems to be trying to get the players who have played no club rugby fit by playing international rugby whilst ignoring players who have been playing well for their clubs. 

He's become downright bloody minded in this respect.   It seems the more the press give him stick for ignoring obvious international contenders, the more he digs his heels in.  

I was reading Will Greenwood's thoughts on England's midfield shambles the other day.  He reckons England simply can't progress until they commit to a 12 who is a genuine ball carrier ie not Farrell.  But it seems Jones considers George Ford to be a better 10 than Farrell, and he won't drop Farrell.  It's very frustrating being an England supporter at the moment. 

digitalscream

Neill said:

But it seems Jones considers George Ford to be a better 10 than Farrell

...and he wouldn't be wrong on that. Ford is also much less of an on-pitch liability than Farrell.

The solution isn't to move your second-string players to another position, though.

p90fool

digitalscream said:

Neill said:

But it seems Jones considers George Ford to be a better 10 than Farrell

...and he wouldn't be wrong on that. Ford is also much less of an on-pitch liability than Farrell.

The solution isn't to move your second-string players to another position, though.

Exactly. You wouldn't play six props just because you have six good ones. 

Despite being in Wales we can't watch club rugby here without paying for it, so I tend to mainly watch English Premiership highlights on a weekly basis, and the standard is excellent. 

I have no idea why Eddie Jones can't pull a Grand Slam winning team out of that lot. 

digitalscream

p90fool said:

digitalscream said:

Neill said:

But it seems Jones considers George Ford to be a better 10 than Farrell

...and he wouldn't be wrong on that. Ford is also much less of an on-pitch liability than Farrell.

The solution isn't to move your second-string players to another position, though.

Exactly. You wouldn't play six props just because you have six good ones. 

Despite being in Wales we can't watch club rugby here without paying for it, so I tend to mainly watch English Premiership highlights on a weekly basis, and the standard is excellent. 

I have no idea why Eddie Jones can't pull a Grand Slam winning team out of that lot. 

Given how many quality players we've got, he should be able to field two teams and take the top two spots. The fact that he keeps fielding the same team and expecting something different to happen is astonishing.

I've noticed an interesting pattern with the England team, though. When we get an influx of new players, they absolutely play out of their skins and the team as a whole produces a performance that rocks the opposition to the core. After a few matches...it's back to the same old boring, repetitive, ineffective rugby. Same for new head coaches.

That pattern has been repeated over and over for the last 15 years.

Do you suppose that, maybe, the problem is the coaching structure and that it operates at odds to the players' actual abilities? Or, more to the point, that it actually dampens the players to the point where they can no longer show the talent that got them there in the first place.

koneguitarist

Do you think England need a captain who deserves to be on the field for his skills as a player? 

I wonder at Farrell as he is not best 10, as that’s Ford, he is certainly not a natural 12 so should he be on the field or is Eddie shoehorning him into the side just because he is captain? 

I personally think Slade should be captain for following reasons. 

1. He is a great player and deserves his spot in team.
 2. he is always incredibly calm and focussed no matter the score. 

3. With Eddie carrying a 6 /2 split on bench, most of the forwards will be replaced so has to be a back. Or your’e left with Itoje or Vunipola as forward options. 

Sam Warburton and Will Carling were chosen as young captains partially down to the way they conducted themselves. It’s not just about having the biggest or loudest guy as captain but best leader that is in team on merit not because he is captain. 

Stuart Hogg has improved since he became captain, I feel best player to be captain is from the backs as they have a more overall sense of the game, 
Thoughts?

digitalscream

koneguitarist said:

Do you think England need a captain who deserves to be on the field for his skills as a player? 

Without a doubt, because the captain is a player first and a captain second.

It's no secret that Eddie is totally wedded to the "Farrell being on the pitch" strategy, regardless of form. He's not the best fly half in the squad, he's not the best 12 in the squad, and he's not the best kicker in the squad. His distribution isn't great, enough of his tackles are off-target (being charitable) to make him a liability in defence, and he's petulant when the ref gives him instructions.

He just needs to be out of the squad.

barnstorm

Assuming the hip injury isn't a big deal and he comes back fit for a long run in the side, I'd take a punt on Underhill. Really hoping England bin off EJ and a load of his 'test match animals'; even as a Wales supporter I'd like to see a more watchable, less hateable England side.

Neill

I expect the press to wade in this week with a chorus of "Farrell must go", which means he is a nailed on certainty for the France game.