The Rugby Union Thread

koneguitarist

NZ was forced into indiscipline by the English forwards, more than one way to win. Wales often play pretty but lose, win ugly works for me.

digitalscream

Fretwired said:

What? They're just 15 guys on a pitch. There were several occasions when a ball to the wing would have opened the All Blacks up. It never came. It never does with England. If England play like that in the World Cup they'll be toast. NZ ill discipline gave away too many penalties - had they been disciplined and the penalties hadn't come then England would have been hammered.

To say they're "just 15 guys on a pitch" is crazy, for obvious reasons. Besides which, they're "just 15 guys on a pitch" who nobody's been able to beat since England did so a year ago.

It's a fair point about those occasions where getting the ball out wide would've cut them open, but there are two problems with that:

1 - Our backs aren't as fast or as strong as theirs, so getting the ball out that wide is problematic.

2 - Our wingers weren't exactly the fastest or most skillful players on the pitch. In fact, I'd wager that at least half the NZ pack would be better on the wing than them.

I can see the logic behind the game plan of basically keeping the wingers out of it. That does, of course, speak volumes about the lack of situational awareness on England's part; that's something which has to come with experience, and I think it's also a big part of what gives the All Blacks the edge over most teams.

koneguitarist

bertie said:

koneguitarist said:

.  as he is still the best Welsh Center ever, 

I assume you're joking again ?

John Taylor

John Dawes

Gibbsy

Bateman

even Arthur Gould   -  all "better" than Gavin "David Dickinson" Henson

Show me one thing those old boys did that Henson has not done on the field already, Gibbs was good but more brute force than skill, john Taylor was a flanker by the way ! When Henson played for Wales, they scored more and conceded less tries than anyone ! Shank line became a nobody and was dropped when Henson was out as Henson often put the ball on a plate for him to score.

Fretwired

koneguitarist said:

NZ was forced into indiscipline by the English forwards, more than one way to win. Wales often play pretty but lose, win ugly works for me.

I'd buy win ugly but England lost - that's my point. Unless the backs get a chance to play they'll never develop .. we might as well put 15 forwards on the pitch and play roadblock rugby .. :-)

digitalscream

Fretwired said:

I'd buy win ugly but England lost - that's my point. Unless the backs get a chance to play they'll never develop .. we might as well put 15 forwards on the pitch and play roadblock rugby .. :-)

Anything less than a 40-point drubbing was a win, as far as I'm concerned

tbm

koneguitarist said:

bertie said:

koneguitarist said:

.  as he is still the best Welsh Center ever, 

I assume you're joking again ?

John Taylor

John Dawes

Gibbsy

Bateman

even Arthur Gould   -  all "better" than Gavin "David Dickinson" Henson

Show me one thing those old boys did that Henson has not done on the field already, Gibbs was good but more brute force than skill, john Taylor was a flanker by the way ! When Henson played for Wales, they scored more and conceded less tries than anyone ! Shank line became a nobody and was dropped when Henson was out as Henson often put the ball on a plate for him to score.

He's kind of poison though in that he seems to disrupt teams. The current Wales crop seem like a tight unit and I can't see Gatland parachuting Henson in becuase when you do, he becomes the focus.

koneguitarist

Wales need his ability to offload and create space in way Roberts can only dream about. if Henson was playing with Roberts, Roberts would have scored a lot of tries. Some people dislike Henson for his honesty, I like him for it, rather then the corporate build up the opposition even when you know they are shit. Point is with him on the field he reads the opposition like a book, it's no secret that Wales won their two Grand slams with Henson starting every match and being defence captain.

imalone

tbm said:
A sobering weekend for the Irish rugby fan. The fact that it was a brilliant Aussie performance, there best this year, is of little comfort. This was not the Wallabies the lions faced. Bested us everywhere around the park, most notably in the scrum. Biggest failing was the utter lack of aggression and urgency from Ireland save for 2/3 players. When Kuridrani spear tackled O' Mahony -  resulting in a red card -  no Irish player went near him.

Biggest failing was inability to make a clean pass. Ireland is going through 'one of those phases' where they seem to forget how to play. Hoping it's just getting used to the new coach.

tbm

koneguitarist said:

Wales need his ability to offload and create space in way Roberts can only dream about. if Henson was playing with Roberts, Roberts would have scored a lot of tries. Some people dislike Henson for his honesty, I like him for it, rather then the corporate build up the opposition even when you know they are shit. Point is with him on the field he reads the opposition like a book, it's no secret that Wales won their two Grand slams with Henson starting every match and being defence captain.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that, except for where you say "Some people dislike Henson for his honesty" - A lot of people dislike Henson because he is a naturally gifted player who has been given chance after chance after chance by different coaches, set ups and clubs and he has pretty much squandered them all. Is he getting his game for Bath?

tbm

imalone said:

tbm said:
A sobering weekend for the Irish rugby fan. The fact that it was a brilliant Aussie performance, there best this year, is of little comfort. This was not the Wallabies the lions faced. Bested us everywhere around the park, most notably in the scrum. Biggest failing was the utter lack of aggression and urgency from Ireland save for 2/3 players. When Kuridrani spear tackled O' Mahony -  resulting in a red card -  no Irish player went near him.

Biggest failing was inability to make a clean pass. Ireland is going through 'one of those phases' where they seem to forget how to play. Hoping it's just getting used to the new coach.

I'm not nervous. It'll take time and Schmidt will have to move some players out and getting the others singing from the same hymn sheet. Remember how it started for him at Leinster? I'm sick of dreary Irish performances punctuated by the odd good one. Schmidt made Leinster the best club in Europe, I'm confidant he can get the most out of Ireland.

bertie

koneguitarist said:

john Taylor was a flanker by the way !  

you're quite right, its not who was in my head when I typed...............

Cannot deny Henson was massively talented ( I dont believe he's anywhere near his old self), and COULD have been your best ever centre, but he isnt/wasnt, 

VimFuego

fuck

 

me

 

gently

 

Ireland are absolutely on fire. As a neutral, this is one of the best 20 mins of rugby I think I've ever seen.

digitalscream

Wow indeed.

Strikes me that the All Blacks are playing a bit dirty...obstruction, offside all over the place, and generally getting in the way out of sight of the ref. Oh, and all the high tackles.

digitalscream

Good god. The All Blacks trying to keep the ball alive with their backs against the wall are a sight to behold.

VimFuego

lol, how cruel was that?

fretmeister

What a game! Hugely enjoyable.

koneguitarist

Have to feel for the Irish there, sickening for Bod and co.

tbm

I feel sick. Donal Leninhen said on Friday that you can play above your best against BNZ and still lose. That's what happened. Sexton's penalty miss, Murray kicking possession away with 20 secs left on the clock. It all contributed, but there was an inevitability about it. We didn't score after the 33rd minute. Still, it was cruel but you have to play for 80 and we didn't. Another glorious nearly day for Irish Rugby. I had to listen to the last 10 mins in the car as I was shouting and scaring my kids. This will take a few days to get over.

koneguitarist

We had 3 games on the trot against Aussies where we lost by less than a score at the death each time, is I know how you feel. Gutted for Bod and co. Is going to retire now, or carry on for six nations ?

tbm

His contract runs till the end of the year but I'd wager he'll be feeling like never playing again this morning. Yeah, it's him, D'Arcy (who was outstanding yesterday) and POC I feel for, because thats their chance gone. They'll never beat New Zealand. It's a fate many fine players from these Island have suffered, but I feel for them after being 20 secs from never having to buy a pint again...