Fretboard woods: can anyone genuinely FEEL the difference?

ICBM

octatonic said:

What I am saying is when all other things are equal changing wood species of a single component is not significantly different from changing that component to another piece of the same species.

There can be as much tonal variability within two pieces of wood from the same species as there can be between two pieces of wood of different species.

I agree, although I think if you compare enough examples of two different species, a pattern emerges quite quickly.

For example, if you compared (say) ten Telecasters with ash bodies to ten Telecasters with alder bodies, they would *all* sound different, but there would also be a more general difference between the ash and the alder ones too.

octatonic said:

With an electric guitar the signal chain of pickup -> amp -> speaker is changing the tone significantly enough to mitigate mach of whatever difference occurs.

I disagree, unless you've got so much distortion and/or restricted EQ on that it will make more or less make any guitar sound the same.

Teetonetal

I reckon if your fingertips touch the wood, then you are playing too heavy handed or tensed. All that's required is a string - fretwire connection.

I have maple, rosewood and ebony guitars. The difference in wood is not a patch on the shape or finish variations... and I reckon in a blind test I couldn't tell the wood type.

erky32

I prefer maple fretb'd, ....I find Richlite spot on, -- ebony , to me , feels a bit like richlite, but veering toward the rosewood feel , which I sometimes can find a bit sticky, (perhaps I dont clean rosewood often enough, maybe my hand chemistry?) . Interesting topic, I've never had the apples-for-apples chance to compare their sonic qualities. ....which is almost into bolt-on neck vs glued territory to me!!

pintspiller

i have not gotten on with any guitar i've played with ebony fingerboards. i can't rememnber why though. too hard and smooth i think.

i generally liked guitars with rosewood fingerboards.

my recent purchase was a squier bass with maple fingerboard. everything about the bass was the best within my budget. not quite sure if i disliked the rosewood fingerboards, or just preferred the maple was it had something different

Lescaster

Teetonetal said:

I reckon if your fingertips touch the wood, then you are playing too heavy handed or tensed. All that's required is a string - fretwire connection.

I have maple, rosewood and ebony guitars. The difference in wood is not a patch on the shape or finish variations... and I reckon in a blind test I couldn't tell the wood type.

Does your finger tip not touch and rub past the fret board when, for example, bending the G string up a tone with your ring finger? or double stopping and muting the lower or higher string? or sliding up a string?

Do you just use the very tip (near the tip of your nail) and always keep your finger at 90 degrees to the fretboard? What guitar style do you play?

I can definitely tell the difference blind between the smooth finish of an Ebony fretboard and a rosewood fret board or the drier feel of the obeche fretboard of my LPJ or hard gloss feel of a maple fretboard.

Plectrum

I've got guitars with Ebony fret-boards. I've got guitars with Rosewood fret-boards. I've got one guitar with a Maple fretboard. It makes no difference to me.

WezV

I always find well polished ebony to feel faster, sleeker... More positive.

johnonguitar

WezV;1033115" said:

I always find well polished ebony to feel faster, sleeker... More positive.

Fitter, happier, more productive?

WezV

johnonguitar;1033126" said:

[quote="WezV;1033115"]I always find well polished ebony to feel faster, sleeker... More positive.

Fitter, happier, more productive?[/quote]

Nah, it feels great but the attack can be a bit quick for my tastes

Sporky

ICBM said:

I agree, although I think if you compare enough examples of two different species, a pattern emerges quite quickly.

But has anyone tested that in a way that excludes confirmation bias?

The reason why I and others bang on about this so much is that the guitar industry is using confirmation bias to dupe people into hearing things that aren't there - just as the hifi industry does.

octatonic

Sporky said:

ICBM said:

I agree, although I think if you compare enough examples of two different species, a pattern emerges quite quickly.

But has anyone tested that in a way that excludes confirmation bias?

The reason why I and others bang on about this so much is that the guitar industry is using confirmation bias to dupe people into hearing things that aren't there - just as the hifi industry does.

Exactly.

I've decided that this isn't my battle.

I don't mean in this thread, but more generally as a builder.

I'm not going to go about building in such as way as to actively promote these guitar culture tropes but I also don't have the time or energy to try to be a self-appointed industry 'mythbuster'.

Teetonetal

Lescaster;1033094" said:

Teetonetal said:

I reckon if your fingertips touch the wood, then you are playing too heavy handed or tensed. All that's required is a string - fretwire connection.



I have maple, rosewood and ebony guitars. The difference in wood is not a patch on the shape or finish variations... and I reckon in a blind test I couldn't tell the wood type.





Does your finger tip not touch and rub past the fret board when, for example, bending the G string up a tone with your ring finger? or double stopping and muting the lower or higher string? or sliding up a string?

Do you just use the very tip (near the tip of your nail) and always keep your finger at 90 degrees to the fretboard? What guitar style do you play?



I can definitely tell the difference blind between the smooth finish of an Ebony fretboard and a rosewood fret board or the drier feel of the obeche fretboard of my LPJ or hard gloss feel of a maple fretboard.

I play all sorts mainly from the blues rock metal sphere. Gig regularly in various bands both originals and depping in covers bands.

I've just been playing and paying attention to my fingers. To say I never touch the actual board would be wrong, but most of the time there is little on no contact.

Chords I play very much with finger tips at 90 degrees to the board. Solo stuff more flatter to the board but still with the tips.

Bending strings doesn't drag the fretting finger or supporting fingers across the wood, neither do slides. Double stops do.

None of my guitars have signs of fretboard wear. 2 are 20+ years old.

Should also add I grew up playing scalloped fretboards where any heavy handedness = out of tune. I think I learnt to play pretty lightly because of that.

Sporky

octatonic said:

Exactly.

I've decided that this isn't my battle.

I don't mean in this thread, but more generally as a builder.

I'm not going to go about building in such as way as to actively promote these guitar culture tropes but I also don't have the time or energy to try to be a self-appointed industry 'mythbuster'.

I tried that with pedals.

People seemed convinced that "military specification" meant "better", even though it just means "specified by some military or other for some use or other, and almost certainly a commercial-off-the-shelf component with a conformity sheet".

The number of times I got asked if an AB or ABY pedal was true bypass. Gah. Of course it bloody isn't. There's no bypass!

ICBM

I know all about confirmation bias and I'm quite interested to test this sort of thing, as you'll have seen in various posts about amps and cables.

This is one where I think there is a real difference - which I agree can be outweighed by other factors in individual cases - and I'm sure it would show up in a properly-conducted large-sample test.

Mythbusting is good, but be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater… as you do if you start to claim that the wood doesn't make a difference in an electric guitar.

HAL9000

crunchman;1032978" said:

Body wood definitely makes a difference.  You can hear the difference between a PRS Custom and a PRS Standard. The only difference is the whacking great big maple cap on the Custom but there is definitely a difference in sound.

I've played Pacificas with and without the flame maple top and I'd agree that those with the maple top are noticeably more resonant.

ICBM

HAL9000 said:

crunchman said:

Body wood definitely makes a difference.  You can hear the difference between a PRS Custom and a PRS Standard. The only difference is the whacking great big maple cap on the Custom but there is definitely a difference in sound.

I've played Pacificas with and without the flame maple top and I'd agree that those with the maple top are noticeably more resonant.

I missed that earlier, but I owned a PRS Standard 22 and a Custom 22 for about ten years - identical apart from the maple cap on the Custom. They sounded noticeably different - the Standard was deeper and more open-sounding, the Custom was tighter and more focused. It was audible amplified as well as acoustically, and even with a fair bit of distortion on.

OK that's only two specific examples, but when you play a few more of each type you hear the same difference.

Sassafras

Confirmation bias or not, I can still tell the difference between mahogany and ash and I'd bet money on any blind test you can conceive. Mahogany has even got a softer attack than ash or alder whatever the industry hype says.

It stands to reason that woods of different densities will absorb string vibrations in different ways.

littlegreenman

It's most likely a visual thing for me, and therefore a self fulfilling prophesy of confirmation bias, but I have only ever owned guitars and basses with dark wood fingerboards.

I probably couldn't tell in a blindfold test, even if my brain tells me I could!

Sambostar

Definitely yes and I hate lacquered maple boards with a passion to the point I find them almost unplayable.  If you can't feel the difference between a rosewood, bare maple and lacquered maple board you are a tool or play guitar like a girl.

Lescaster

Teetonetal;1033158" said:

[quote="Lescaster;1033094"]Teetonetal said:

I reckon if your fingertips touch the wood, then you are playing too heavy handed or tensed. All that's required is a string - fretwire connection.



I have maple, rosewood and ebony guitars. The difference in wood is not a patch on the shape or finish variations... and I reckon in a blind test I couldn't tell the wood type.





Does your finger tip not touch and rub past the fret board when, for example, bending the G string up a tone with your ring finger? or double stopping and muting the lower or higher string? or sliding up a string?

Do you just use the very tip (near the tip of your nail) and always keep your finger at 90 degrees to the fretboard? What guitar style do you play?



I can definitely tell the difference blind between the smooth finish of an Ebony fretboard and a rosewood fret board or the drier feel of the obeche fretboard of my LPJ or hard gloss feel of a maple fretboard.

I play all sorts mainly from the blues rock metal sphere. Gig regularly in various bands both originals and depping in covers bands.

I've just been playing and paying attention to my fingers. To say I never touch the actual board would be wrong, but most of the time there is little on no contact.

Chords I play very much with finger tips at 90 degrees to the board. Solo stuff more flatter to the board but still with the tips.

Bending strings doesn't drag the fretting finger or supporting fingers across the wood, neither do slides. Double stops do.

None of my guitars have signs of fretboard wear. 2 are 20+ years old.

Should also add I grew up playing scalloped fretboards where any heavy handedness = out of tune. I think I learnt to play pretty lightly because of that.[/quote]

Thanks mate, it confirms my thinking that maybe it has something to do with how individuals are taught or how they have learned. I taught myself mainly from books and with friends when at school etc and would probably be classed as quite a sloppy player hence my fingers contacting at a lower angle etc. resulting in my finger tips touching the board often.