Fretboard woods: can anyone genuinely FEEL the difference?

Sambostar

Lacquered maple fretboards do have that hard glassy feel though, a bit like stainless frets vs. nickel ones.  They are just less interactive I think, less organic or whatever.

Bare maple or rosewood feels much squishier (Like the way you described that @Catthan) as I wrote this this morning and I feel the same) somehow and offers more grinding resistance which somehow feels better.  I don't think there is much difference between bare fretboards though, at least not that I can notice.

Now, if I was to say all my guitars are scalloped, you'd definitely think I was making it up, but they're not.

Tonally, if the wood is more conducive to longer and sustained string resonance, then it's fairly reasonable to rationalise that the pickups will pick that up, it's a no brainer.

Run you nail along a chalkboard and then along a piece of bare maple or rosewood, of course there is a difference.

Now straddle an electric fence.

Sporky

Dave_Mc said:

Also if everyone is prone to confirmation bias, doesn't that mean octatonic is too?

I can't speak for Octatonic (his voice is so deep and mellifluous), but I am certainly prone to confirmation bias which is why I don't trust my senses and expectations alone. I'm also prone to over-compensating for it, which again is why I don't trust my senses and expectations alone. This is normal, but it is also arguably better than not knowing what confirmation bias is and thus being unable to deal with it at all.

The first step in avoiding falling into a hole is knowing that the hole is there.

Pretty much the Bulverism fallacy, really.

Not by my understanding of either. Arguments have been presented against the claim itself, rather than just against the people making the claim.

Plus being biased doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong- I'm biased against anyone who thinks the sun revolves around the earth, for example.

That's a false equivalency, surely? Confirmation bias often leads to incorrect conclusions because it distorts the balance of evidence. That is not the same as being biased against a view unsupported by evidence.

Don't forget about the nocebo effect.

How does that apply here?

Sambostar

Sound aside I thought this thread was about the tactile nature of materials and things?

If I dropped a tonne of granite on someone's head would it feel different to dropping a tonne of light density foam on their head?

Sporky

Like many discussions both on the inferweb and out there in the real world of tigers and suchlike, the original question has provoked wider debate.

Relax. This is perfectly normal.

WezV

Sporky;1034224" said:

Like many discussions both on the inferweb and out there in the real world of tigers and suchlike, the original question has provoked wider debate.



Relax. This is perfectly normal.

No its not

Sporky

Well, OK, "normal" on the inferweb probably involves someone SWATting someone else by now.

Sambostar

Yes, much is probably psychosomatic due to developed neural networks, the same as this beer reminds me of Sierra Nevada IPA and now I have urges to listen to Warron Zevon...on.  But what is touch and feel anyway if not a completely subjective thing? 

And you are allowed.  You create your own realities.  Look at Rocker, he believes all sorts of weird shite about Hi Fi, but he swears by it, so it makes him happy. In reality,  the human mind is all we have.  Which kind of puts us in a catch 22.  There is no universal truth.

WezV

Its just confirmation bias on your part. Most of the internet is porn and clickbait. actual debate is still rare

Sambostar

Lacquered boards are shite though.  Although I wonder, is Nitro a softer feel to Urethane?  mmmmm.

octatonic

Sambostar said:

Yes, much is probably psychosomatic due to developed neural networks, the same as this beer reminds me of Sierra Nevada IPA and now I have urges to listen to Warron Zevon...on.  But what is touch and feel anyway if not a completely subjective thing? 

And you are allowed.  You create your own realities.  Look at Rocker, he believes all sorts of weird shite about Hi Fi, but he swears by it, so it makes him happy. In reality,  the human mind is all we have.  Which kind of puts us in a catch 22.  There is no universal truth.

This is the relativist argument.

I hate that shit.

Particularly if something can be demonstrated to not be true but a person continues to believe it because it fits with their preconceptions.

Sambostar

Well cause it's true, it's one grey area, there is no black or white.  Science is a language of relativity, there are no absolute truths.  It drives me insane and has done for years as our minds and cultures are programmed for absolute truths.  OCD, manic depression eat your heart out. The crux of it is you can't even explain why it is that you do the things that you do.  Nature is greater.  But is nature even real?

I know you feel it too Oct so don't deny it, it's why you have turned to the drums.

Elx

Here you go bitches

Elx

And before you all do it, no ad hominem arguments, ok?

Sambostar

What does ad hominem mean?

octatonic

Sambostar said:

Well cause it's true, it's one grey area, there is no black or white.  Science is a language of relativity, there are no absolute truths.  It drives me insane and has done for years as our minds and cultures are programmed for absolute truths.  OCD, manic depression eat your heart out. The crux of it is you can't even explain why it is that you do the things that you do.  Nature is greater.  But is nature even real?

I know you feel it too Oct so don't deny it, it's why you have turned to the drums.

Nope.

I turned to drums because I always wanted to play them and now I finally have the space and time to do it.

Also, I got pretty good at guitar and the rate of change massively dropped, so I felt I wasn't making as much progress, or at least the progress was too incremental.

The great thing about learning drums at the level that I am at is the rate of change is huge.

I'm loads better than I was 3 months ago, which is cool.

Sambostar said:

What does ad hominem mean?

It means 'to the man'.

Essentially, instead of debating the argument, you attack the man instead.

Some other logical fallacies are the non-sequitur- which you do fairly often.

The other one is the gish-gallop, which you have done in the paragraph above ^^^^^^^.

This is when a person makes many claims that serve the purpose to tie the person they are arguing with up in knots- it takes a lot of time and effort to unravel their logic and refute each point.

You do this a hell of a lot- which is why you get amused and sarcastic responses from me fairly often.

It is easier than unravelling the gallop, particularly when doing so just triggers another gallop.

The Gish Gallop is named after creationist asstard (that is ad hominem) Duane Gish who frequently used it.

guitars4you

octatonic said:

guitars4you said:

If you feel that  tone woods are not important to the tone of the guitar then why not suport the carbon fibre, poxy resin, plastic based route and stop chopping down trees - I'm fully in favour of the tone wood approach - From Stradivarius to today luthiers, they have always tapped the wood to listen to its resonance - 2 pieces of mahogany can both ring and be resonant - but they can be resonant at different frequencies, hence 2 similar guitars can sound different

Bottom line is that a good guitar with good tone woods generally sounds good unplugged and that is were your tone starts  The pick ups amplify this natural source

No sampler/Synth captures the true sound of a piano - the same goes for all the modern various 'digital' amps - Granted they are better now then in the past - But the finer nuances, soul and expression is missing - Same goes for a plastic clarinet v a good wood clarinet 

I agree with ICBM that somehow And remarkably, a Trussart sounds quite like a normal electric guitar, when amplified

You've described acoustic instruments here (in bold).

I don't think anyone has disputed wood choice in acoustic guitars having a large impact on tone.

That is a pretty logical thing as the sound of the acoustic guitar is essentially unfiltered from producing its sound to being heard.

As to the cutting down of trees- well, wood is easy to work and pretty cheap.

I can easily shape a neck with a couple of rasps.

I don't really have the ability to work in epoxy here (and I build acoustic instruments anyway).

An electric guitar is an acoustic guitar without the built in amplifier/sound box - As an overview the pick up amplifies the tone that the wood/instrument is producing - a simple yet effective statement - after that we can open many discussion points with no clear cut winner

EricTheWeary

Elx said:

And before you all do it, no ad hominem arguments, ok?

Ah, no fair...

Sambostar

octatonic said:

Sambostar said:

Well cause it's true, it's one grey area, there is no black or white.  Science is a language of relativity, there are no absolute truths.  It drives me insane and has done for years as our minds and cultures are programmed for absolute truths.  OCD, manic depression eat your heart out. The crux of it is you can't even explain why it is that you do the things that you do.  Nature is greater.  But is nature even real?

I know you feel it too Oct so don't deny it, it's why you have turned to the drums.

Nope.

I turned to drums because I always wanted to play them and now I finally have the space and time to do it.

Also, I got pretty good at guitar and the rate of change massively dropped, so I felt I wasn't making as much progress, or at least the progress was too incremental.

The great thing about learning drums at the level that I am at is the rate of change is huge.

I'm loads better than I was 3 months ago, which is cool.

Sambostar said:

What does ad hominem mean?

It means 'to the man'.

Essentially, instead of debating the argument, you attack the man instead.

Some other logical fallacies are the non-sequitur- which you do fairly often.

The other one is the gish-gallop, which you have done in the paragraph above ^^^^^^^.

This is when a person makes many claims that serve the purpose to tie the person they are arguing with up in knots- it takes a lot of time and effort to unravel their logic and refute each point.

You do this a hell of a lot- which is why you get amused and sarcastic responses from me fairly often.

It is easier than unravelling the gallop, particularly when doing so just triggers another gallop.

The Gish Gallop is named after creationist asstard (that is ad hominem) Duane Gish who frequently used it.

Uh?

Sambostar

Material influences harmonic resonance and string vibration which is picked up by pickups.  The rest is down to neural networks and physical and subjective tactility I don't see how this is rocket science or either wrong or right.

Elx

Back and sides made of cardboard...