Anyone had acupuncture ?

GSPBASSES

Yes, I’ve had acupuncture, many years ago, I was trying to give up smoking. The treatment comprised of very small needles being pushed into my earlobes. It kind of worked, it was suggested that whenever I fancied a cigarette was to squeeze my earlobe between my fingers. This worked very well until I stop squeezing my earlobe, I then instantly lit up a cigarette. So you could say it worked if I constantly squeeze my earlobes. Also tried a hypnotherapist, this was a bit old all the time I was with him I really didn’t want cigarettes and the thought of cigarettes turned my stomach. The only trouble was soon as I left his office and got in the car I wanted a cigarette.

I did give up smoking eventually but by sheer will power.

Sambostar

Why does metal sound better when it's louder?  It's the same thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTIWzgExzAA

Sporky

Emp_Fab said:

Now, I'm not one to believe quackery in general, and I'm fairly convinced that acupuncture is probably nonsense.  However... my belief or otherwise is tempered by the fact that we do not know everything about the body.  Assuming that our current understanding of biology and medicine is the pinnacle of what it will ever be is arrogant in the extreme.

But acupuncture has been extensively tested, and has extensively failed those tests.

Not-knowing-everything is not the same as not knowing anything!

Sambostar

I would worry that they don't sterilize the needles.

octatonic

Emp_Fab said:

Now, I'm not one to believe quackery in general, and I'm fairly convinced that acupuncture is probably nonsense.  However... my belief or otherwise is tempered by the fact that we do not know everything about the body.  Assuming that our current understanding of biology and medicine is the pinnacle of what it will ever be is arrogant in the extreme.

Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean that illogical stuff is real.

Current scientific knowledge won't be replaced by folklore that is several orders of magnitude simpler than what we currently know.

It will be replaced by a deeper understanding of what we currently know.

Most of the low hanging fruit has been picked- meaning that dramatic, earth shaking discoveries like gravity, basic biology- we know all that stuff.

Further advances will be measured in inches, not miles- but folkloric nonsense is just that.

There is a Western attitude that thinks that because something is old and from Asia that it is therefore somehow profound and true.

It isn't- no more than any of the medicine we believed here in Europe 2000 years ago.

Deeper understanding of the liver, for example, won't come from 'the liver is made up of the element of wood', because TCM says that all physical things are based on the related characteristics of wood, fire, earth, metal, and water. 

It is closer to a religion than it is to medicine.

I really do worry about the lack of critical thinking skills.

Sambostar

octatonic said:

 'the liver is made up of the element of wood'

Wood isn't even an element and you're calling me an idiot?

littlegreenman

Vincenzo Nibali was doing really badly in this year's Giro D'Italia in week 3. Lost close to 5 minutes.

His "acupuncturist" flew in an applied a few needles, and hey presto, took back all the time lost in 2 days and went on to win it.

All the proof you need. There's "magic" in them thar little needles

octatonic

Sambostar said:

octatonic said:

 'the liver is made up of the element of wood'

Wood isn't even an element and you're calling me an idiot?

Don't be stupid.

You know I'm summarising a TCM belief and not presenting it as my own idea.

Sambostar

Well, I'm the only one who's presented anatomical diagrams, you're the one who's presented Meme's.

What's TCM is that like TGP?

hotpickups

Funny enough my Mrs had acupuncture today and absolutely swore by it cos it's done so much good even while she was there having it fone. Working for her

JezWynd

octatonic said:

TCM is quite simply nonsense- it is as scientific as astrology.

The western equivalent is using leeches to cure illnesses, or blood letting.

Leeches have recognised benefits in modern medicine.

we asked Bill Lineaweaver, a surgeon at the University of Mississippi Medical Center. He says leeches are often the best option for safely removing congested blood from a wound. 

Lineaweaver: 
Leeches are used in modern medicine because they work. They're an extremely effective artificial vein in certain situations where uh, a body part such as a finger has been replanted after an amputation, but only the arterial side is working. The, the leech then serves as an artificial vein by drawing off the excess blood or the congested blood, until the person can actually grow back small, venous capillaries. 

http://sciencenetlinks.com/science-news/science-updates/modern-leeching/

I'm quite sure that in the future our present medical practises will be looked up as barbaric, much as we view most medieval  practises.

Sambostar

I wouldn't do it as it's unhygienic and stupid, but I wouldn't criticise it until I've tried it.

Sporky

JezWynd said:

octatonic said:

TCM is quite simply nonsense- it is as scientific as astrology.

The western equivalent is using leeches to cure illnesses, or blood letting.

Leeches have recognised benefits in modern medicine.

But not to cure illnesses.

octatonic

JezWynd said:

octatonic said:

TCM is quite simply nonsense- it is as scientific as astrology.

The western equivalent is using leeches to cure illnesses, or blood letting.

Leeches have recognised benefits in modern medicine.

we asked Bill Lineaweaver, a surgeon at the University of Mississippi Medical Center. He says leeches are often the best option for safely removing congested blood from a wound. 

Lineaweaver: 
Leeches are used in modern medicine because they work. They're an extremely effective artificial vein in certain situations where uh, a body part such as a finger has been replanted after an amputation, but only the arterial side is working. The, the leech then serves as an artificial vein by drawing off the excess blood or the congested blood, until the person can actually grow back small, venous capillaries. 

http://sciencenetlinks.com/science-news/science-updates/modern-leeching/

I'm quite sure that in the future our present medical practises will be looked up as barbaric, much as we view most medieval  practises.

I wondered if anyone would bring this up or not.

Yes, I know leeches have a modern use- but you have to acknowledge that the historical use of leeches and blood letting is in no way related to its modern usage.

and to your last point- absolutely. This is why it annoys me so much when people compartmentalise TCM, fail to apply logic to its assessment.

LastMantra

lol

Sambostar

@octatonic have you ever tried acupuncture?

JezWynd

LastMantra said:

lol

Now that definitely has proven benefits.

lloyd

Everyone with anecdotal evidence of it working knows that that's not scientific proof that "it works" right?

I get better after 3 or 4 days of getting a cold because I tie a red ribbon round my little finger the first time I sneeze.

PROOF of the ribbon to finger remedy's potency.

octatonic

Sambostar said:

@octatonic have you ever tried acupuncture?

Actually I have, a few years ago.

But you don't need to personally try something to be able to assess it, especially when it is documented so thoroughly.

Anecdotal personal evidence can, and frequently does, massively contradict the data.

Sambostar

octatonic said:

Sambostar said:

@octatonic have you ever tried acupuncture?

Actually I have, a few years ago.

But you don't need to personally try something to be able to assess it, especially when it is documented so thoroughly.

Anecdotal personal evidence can, and frequently does, massively contradict the data.

That is where I disagree, I don't believe anything until I've tried it.  Although I agree that personal experience does not make a science.