Anyone had acupuncture ?

Sambostar

All yous are insane FFS.  Fuck me, everyone's insane.  Honestly, the worst thing you can do is inflict your insanity on others in the name of self righteousness, theory or sanity and make others jump up to conform to it.  That is completely and utterly insane but it happens every single day.  Lot of people talking but nobody in to be listening.  The lunatics are in charge of the asylum in little piecemeal pieces every single day.

Anyways. I'II be watching in my astral projections.

Sambostar

 

https://img0.etsystatic.com/049/1/10074862/il_fullxfull.736714504_r8ck.jpg

In a nutshell that is what every girlfriend has told me in the past.  I thought it was normal?

So what are you telling me it's time to get therapy?  Fuck them.  Something will come along.

Oh come on man, it's normal and you know it, everyone knows it.

octatonic

Sambostar said:

 

https://img0.etsystatic.com/049/1/10074862/il_fullxfull.736714504_r8ck.jpg

In a nutshell that is what every girlfriend has told me in the past.  I thought it was normal?

So what are you telling me it's time to get therapy?  Fuck them.  Something will come along.

Either I'm a talented empathic type who is unlocking the secrets of your heart, or I'm googling love poetry and posting it here to fuck with you.

You choose.

Sambostar

Well....you certainly aren't empathetic. I hope.  But quotes are like mechanical techniques honed to the bone and as such they are mostly all true.

That last one resonates with me.  Fucking bitches can't stand it when I beat the shit out of everything and have so much internal angry.  Only joking eh.  Which isn't internal anger at all but just awareness.

Bloody liberals.

OK, I'II leave the rest out, acupuncture might work for me.  But I believe.

octatonic

https://shadowofgevros.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/img_0125.jpeg

Emp_Fab

Sambostar

Ancient ginger proverb.

You can't win an argument with a guy who still thinks it's a miracle the cheese doesn't all stick to the plastic pizza packaging.

Sambostar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVfWx9282y0

Sambostar

Problem is when you want to get black and white about the siltation you take the very thing away that people cling on to.  I think it's extremely possible to be too sober.  Mosquitoes are biting at my screen now. I should go to bed.  I love melodrama, what else is there other than repeat?

Sambostar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXWq3f01e2U

menamestom

rlw;1106372" said:

menamestom said:

rlw;1106189" said:Had it several times for specific leg and back pain - it works.







Several million Chinese are unlikely to be fooled all the time...........

Anecdote + Appeal to tradition ≠ Data














Had dreadful pain in the lower back and legs on and off for months.  Tried drugs (killed the pain), drink (ditto), a combination of both (ditto +), chiropractor and osteopath (no noticeable effect) and finally acupuncture which made it go away after three sessions, never, yet, to return.



Why shouldn't it work?  For backs and the like, at least, I can see a definite connection between the cause of the pain and the cure - nerves, muscles and stimulation.  I wouldn't use it for toothache but I'm assured that it can work by more than one person who is quite rational.  Nor do I think it will cure cancer but, as they say, the leg bone's connected to the thighbone etc etc.



So there.

Whatever works for you fella. Glad it went away after 3 sessions. Or a period of time as It's sometimes called. Or Regression To The Mean as scientists describe it. 'Why shouldn't it work?' Ask another question, 'Why can't any quality peer reviewed studies prove it works?'
Perhaps the next one will?

rlw

menamestom said:

rlw;1106372" said:

menamestom said:

rlw;1106189" said:Had it several times for specific leg and back pain - it works.







Several million Chinese are unlikely to be fooled all the time...........

Anecdote + Appeal to tradition ≠ Data














Had dreadful pain in the lower back and legs on and off for months.  Tried drugs (killed the pain), drink (ditto), a combination of both (ditto +), chiropractor and osteopath (no noticeable effect) and finally acupuncture which made it go away after three sessions, never, yet, to return.



Why shouldn't it work?  For backs and the like, at least, I can see a definite connection between the cause of the pain and the cure - nerves, muscles and stimulation.  I wouldn't use it for toothache but I'm assured that it can work by more than one person who is quite rational.  Nor do I think it will cure cancer but, as they say, the leg bone's connected to the thighbone etc etc.



So there.

Whatever works for you fella. Glad it went away after 3 sessions. Or a period of time as It's sometimes called. Or Regression To The Mean as scientists describe it. 'Why shouldn't it work?' Ask another question, 'Why can't any quality peer reviewed studies prove it works?'
Perhaps the next one will?

A short period of time (3 days) involving intense treatment curing a problem which had existed for some months beforehand but which did not respond to any treatment.   Pure coincidence clearly.

rlw

Its all irrelevant anyway as we are all going to die.

Drew_TNBD

Emp_Fab said:

Now, I'm not one to believe quackery in general,

Except for social justice politics.

ZIIIIIINGGG!!

Sambostar

octatonic said:

Sambostar said:

What do you mean?  It's true, we all live our own reality.  You believe this and that and ratify it and justify it, I believe some other twaddle and do the same or whatever, it's life, each within our own microcosms  Sometimes we believe similar things, it's life.  It's a lot like music actually.

Relativist claptrap.

Emp_Fab

Drew_fx said:

Emp_Fab said:

Now, I'm not one to believe quackery in general,

Except for social justice politics.

ZIIIIIINGGG!!

Alas Mr Drew, the quackery is on your side IMO.  My side is backed up with science and evidence and stuff.  Apparently though, so is yours, according to the sources you often quote.  The problem is that we're never going to get to the bottom of that particular one because, unlike medicine, peer-reviewed, double-blind tested research is a bit thin on the ground on your hypothesis that "all women are evil".  :P

Back to the Chinese darts...  knowing nothing about acupuncture when he started going for onehundredandEIGHTY on my torso, I was oblivious to the quackery element, but I did internally pull a face of concern when he mentioned that he was going to twist the needles as "the theory is anyway, that you can loosen the tension by doing this".  Even he obviously wasn't convinced about what he was doing, and now, I'm left questioning the bloke's professionalism if he's prepared to use a therapy that has apparently been debunked as quackery.  He was, however, very good with the rest of the treatment, giving me exercises to do and he didn't try to book me in for a series of sessions.  

He is a chartered physio and was telling me about the muscles around the neck and head, what their were called and how they interact etc, so it wasn't like prayer-wheels and joss sticks as he emerged in a cloud of smoke from his office.

Grunfeld

Emp_Fab said:

octatonic said:

It doesn't work beyond being a theatrical placebo.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-doesnt-work/

...The trouble now is; now that I know it's not really doing anything, have I destroyed the benefits of the placebo effect for myself ?

Not necessarily because knowing it's a placebo isn't important with the right outlook.  So I think it depends on your take on it.  Acupuncture has no effect beyond a generalised treatment effect (as has been said) but that's not quite the same as "no effect at all".  I'll sometimes use hypnosis as an adjunct to treatment, even with physio patients -- and that's a giant mega-placebo effect -- which is also not the same as no effect at all.  Plus, you can use self-hypnosis -- so there you totally know what's going on and still it doesn't destroy the benefits of placebo.  Placebo is more useful than just something which confounds clinical trials.  (I think Clare Bear may have said that!)

Two recent, interesting books related to this subject:

Jo Marchant, "Cure"

Suzzane O'Sullivan, "It's All In Your Head"

octatonic

Sambostar said:

octatonic said:

Sambostar said:

What do you mean?  It's true, we all live our own reality.  You believe this and that and ratify it and justify it, I believe some other twaddle and do the same or whatever, it's life, each within our own microcosms  Sometimes we believe similar things, it's life.  It's a lot like music actually.

Relativist claptrap.

You had 12 hours to come up with a response and this is the best you can do?

Sambostar

I was busy astral planning again and from 7-10am I had a hangover and desperately trying to get back to sleep so I could shag the imaginary women in my dream.

octatonic

Sambostar said:

I was busy astral planning again and from 7-10am I had a hangover and desperately trying to get back to sleep so I could shag the imaginary women in my dream.

Christened the new bed yet?

By christened I mean pissed in it.