Brexit legal challenge.

Sporky

Evilmags said:

trying to paint half the population as "thick" "racist" and every other insult that has been hurled at the out campaign, after the vote has happened, is the behavior of totalitarians

But painting the other half as abusive, intolerant snobs is just fine... >:D<

Oh Mags, how you love your double standards!

Heartfeltdawn

Evilmags said: Christ sake, the UK just ditched the biggest set of off balance sheet liabilities ever run up in history and people are upset. Legally trying to challenge the result of a referendum which had the highest rate of participation in decades is pathetic. If you have any belief in democracy what so ever, you have to now support the UK leaving. It really is that simple, and trying to paint half the population as "thick" "racist" and every other insult that has been hurled at the out campaign, after the vote has happened, is the behavior of totalitarians. The consequences of such behavior, and the degree of extremism and other forms of behavior it would unleash would be unprecedented.  

Challenging the result of a referendum isn't the issue: the issue is how that referendum will be acted upon. There's enough decent legal opinion on both sides that indicates it's not as cut and dried as 'this is how the people voted therefore we must follow that'. 

Fretwired

fretmeister said:

Evilmags said:

Christ sake, the UK just ditched the biggest set of off balance sheet liabilities ever run up in history and people are upset. Legally trying to challenge the result of a referendum which had the highest rate of participation in decades is pathetic. If you have any belief in democracy what so ever, you have to now support the UK leaving. It really is that simple, and trying to paint half the population as "thick" "racist" and every other insult that has been hurled at the out campaign, after the vote has happened, is the behavior of totalitarians. The consequences of such behavior, and the degree of extremism and other forms of behavior it would unleash would be unprecedented. 

The harm caused to Scotland by the behavior of the losing side of a referendum is only beginning to be seen. When Sturgeon's government runs out of other people's money it will be interesting to see how and who ends up bailing them out...

Where does it say they are challenging the result?

The action seems to be merely wanting the govt to actually follow the constitution and have a parliamentary vote on it so the old act can be repealed.

They're not challenging the result - the result is not binding anyway. However, if parliament voted they could decide to ignore the referendum result, so if you wanted to remain in the EU a cynic could argue it's a last throw of the dice. There are more pro-EU MPs than leavers.

I'm pretty sure we'll stay in with a cobbled together deal that both sides can sell to their electorates.

fretmeister

Fretwired said:

fretmeister said:

Evilmags said:

Christ sake, the UK just ditched the biggest set of off balance sheet liabilities ever run up in history and people are upset. Legally trying to challenge the result of a referendum which had the highest rate of participation in decades is pathetic. If you have any belief in democracy what so ever, you have to now support the UK leaving. It really is that simple, and trying to paint half the population as "thick" "racist" and every other insult that has been hurled at the out campaign, after the vote has happened, is the behavior of totalitarians. The consequences of such behavior, and the degree of extremism and other forms of behavior it would unleash would be unprecedented. 

The harm caused to Scotland by the behavior of the losing side of a referendum is only beginning to be seen. When Sturgeon's government runs out of other people's money it will be interesting to see how and who ends up bailing them out...

Where does it say they are challenging the result?

The action seems to be merely wanting the govt to actually follow the constitution and have a parliamentary vote on it so the old act can be repealed.

They're not challenging the result - the result is not binding anyway. However, if parliament voted they could decide to ignore the referendum result, so if you wanted to remain in the EU a cynic could argue it's a last throw of the dice. There are more pro-EU MPs than leavers.

I'm pretty sure we'll stay in with a cobbled together deal that both sides can sell to their electorates.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

p90fool

Evilmags said:

Christ sake, the UK just ditched the biggest set of off balance sheet liabilities ever run up in history and people are upset. Legally trying to challenge the result of a referendum which had the highest rate of participation in decades is pathetic. If you have any belief in democracy what so ever, you have to now support the UK leaving. It really is that simple, and trying to paint half the population as "thick" "racist" and every other insult that has been hurled at the out campaign, after the vote has happened, is the behavior of totalitarians. The consequences of such behavior, and the degree of extremism and other forms of behavior it would unleash would be unprecedented. 

Leavers should be applauding the attempt to legally cross the "t"s and dot the "i"s. It'll stop the result being undermined or challenged at a later date.

I'm fairly certain that enough MPs who wanted to remain will change their minds when it comes to it - to do otherwise would be suicidal politically.

Remainers (like me) pinning their hopes on MPs sticking to their principles and blocking the invocation of Article 50 in parliament is naive IMO. 

Fretwired

fretmeister said:

Fretwired said:

fretmeister said:

Evilmags said:

Christ sake, the UK just ditched the biggest set of off balance sheet liabilities ever run up in history and people are upset. Legally trying to challenge the result of a referendum which had the highest rate of participation in decades is pathetic. If you have any belief in democracy what so ever, you have to now support the UK leaving. It really is that simple, and trying to paint half the population as "thick" "racist" and every other insult that has been hurled at the out campaign, after the vote has happened, is the behavior of totalitarians. The consequences of such behavior, and the degree of extremism and other forms of behavior it would unleash would be unprecedented. 

The harm caused to Scotland by the behavior of the losing side of a referendum is only beginning to be seen. When Sturgeon's government runs out of other people's money it will be interesting to see how and who ends up bailing them out...

Where does it say they are challenging the result?

The action seems to be merely wanting the govt to actually follow the constitution and have a parliamentary vote on it so the old act can be repealed.

They're not challenging the result - the result is not binding anyway. However, if parliament voted they could decide to ignore the referendum result, so if you wanted to remain in the EU a cynic could argue it's a last throw of the dice. There are more pro-EU MPs than leavers.

I'm pretty sure we'll stay in with a cobbled together deal that both sides can sell to their electorates.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Pleasure.... I'm dim leaver you see ...

fretmeister

Fretwired said:

fretmeister said:

Fretwired said:

fretmeister said:

Evilmags said:

Christ sake, the UK just ditched the biggest set of off balance sheet liabilities ever run up in history and people are upset. Legally trying to challenge the result of a referendum which had the highest rate of participation in decades is pathetic. If you have any belief in democracy what so ever, you have to now support the UK leaving. It really is that simple, and trying to paint half the population as "thick" "racist" and every other insult that has been hurled at the out campaign, after the vote has happened, is the behavior of totalitarians. The consequences of such behavior, and the degree of extremism and other forms of behavior it would unleash would be unprecedented. 

The harm caused to Scotland by the behavior of the losing side of a referendum is only beginning to be seen. When Sturgeon's government runs out of other people's money it will be interesting to see how and who ends up bailing them out...

Where does it say they are challenging the result?

The action seems to be merely wanting the govt to actually follow the constitution and have a parliamentary vote on it so the old act can be repealed.

They're not challenging the result - the result is not binding anyway. However, if parliament voted they could decide to ignore the referendum result, so if you wanted to remain in the EU a cynic could argue it's a last throw of the dice. There are more pro-EU MPs than leavers.

I'm pretty sure we'll stay in with a cobbled together deal that both sides can sell to their electorates.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Pleasure.... I'm dim leaver you see ...

I have no doubt your predictions on Brexit will be as accurate as your F1 ones are.

skankdelvar

Heartfeltdawn said:

skankdelvar said: Practically the only information about the only so-far identifiable backer of the legal challenge relates to his praiseworthy talent for starting things, making money out of them and moving on. Pronouncements on democracy, governance, fairness? Nil, though I'm sure we'll hear plenty about that in coming days.

You might want to look at Zoopla itself then and analyse the political activities and leanings of its majority shareholder. The majority shareholder of the Zoopla Property Group at 52.6% is DMG Media, a subsidiary of DMGT and currently chaired by the Viscount Rothermere (worth £1 billion). ZPG has a number of property interests. No need to explain what the Daily Mail position on Europe is/was. It's reported on Order Order that the political editor of today's Mail claims to not know who any of the mystery backers of this legal bid are. One supposes he bloody well knows now! 

Interesting that the connection between Mishcon and DMGT that I mentioned in my earlier post is further reinforced by the Zoopla holdings. 

So is Chesterman fronting for the Daily Mail?

It would seem perhaps not. Zoopla (the company) issued a release stating that Chesterman's organisation of the challenge is a private matter in which Zoopla has no involvement. Which leads to some interesting possibilities:

* DMGT think that Chesterman's gone rogue

* DMGT are trying to hide their hand in matters

* DMGT are experiencing the old 'left hand, right hand problem'

Based on my knowledge of DMGT (they're an old client) it's probably the last option. Everyone runs round trying to keep Dacre happy while telling Jonathan (Rothermere) as little as possible. Lovely chap, Jonathan; quite bright but nowhere near as much fun as his father; the darling old chap pegged out on top of an oriental prostitute, y'know. 

Damn that Viagra! Robbed me of one of my best pals.

Fretwired

fretmeister said:

Fretwired said:

fretmeister said:

Fretwired said:

fretmeister said:

Evilmags said:

Christ sake, the UK just ditched the biggest set of off balance sheet liabilities ever run up in history and people are upset. Legally trying to challenge the result of a referendum which had the highest rate of participation in decades is pathetic. If you have any belief in democracy what so ever, you have to now support the UK leaving. It really is that simple, and trying to paint half the population as "thick" "racist" and every other insult that has been hurled at the out campaign, after the vote has happened, is the behavior of totalitarians. The consequences of such behavior, and the degree of extremism and other forms of behavior it would unleash would be unprecedented. 

The harm caused to Scotland by the behavior of the losing side of a referendum is only beginning to be seen. When Sturgeon's government runs out of other people's money it will be interesting to see how and who ends up bailing them out...

Where does it say they are challenging the result?

The action seems to be merely wanting the govt to actually follow the constitution and have a parliamentary vote on it so the old act can be repealed.

They're not challenging the result - the result is not binding anyway. However, if parliament voted they could decide to ignore the referendum result, so if you wanted to remain in the EU a cynic could argue it's a last throw of the dice. There are more pro-EU MPs than leavers.

I'm pretty sure we'll stay in with a cobbled together deal that both sides can sell to their electorates.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Pleasure.... I'm dim leaver you see ...

I have no doubt your predictions on Brexit will be as accurate as your F1 ones are.

Ouch ... Frau Merkel is allegedly dangling a carrot - a special membership for the UK. So we may remain aftyer all.

digitalscream

Fretwired said:

Ouch ... Frau Merkel is allegedly dangling a carrot - a special membership for the UK. So we may remain aftyer all.

Where did you get that from? That'd be interesting indeed, but I can't find any reference to it.

ThorpyFX

Fretwired said:

fretmeister said:

Ouch ... Frau Merkel is allegedly dangling a carrot - a special membership for the UK. So we may remain aftyer all.

Good..... this is what it should have been all along, if juncker hadn't been the arrogant unyielding prat that he is, DC wouldn't have called the referendum in the first place. Regardless of which side you sit it is clear the EU needs to reform, abandon its plans for a federal europe and return to its initial concept as a trading block, with ties that increase security.

skankdelvar

The hunt for Mrs Merkel's carrot is on. 

Perhaps it's under Mrs Slocombe's pussy.

Fretwired

digitalscream said:

Fretwired said:

Ouch ... Frau Merkel is allegedly dangling a carrot - a special membership for the UK. So we may remain aftyer all.

Where did you get that from? That'd be interesting indeed, but I can't find any reference to it.

Brexit negotiation thread - Telegraph link ....

Bidley

Well it's nice to see people are managing to be civil, and the toxic atmosphere has finally dissipated.

I'm off to play mandolin for another week or so...

chillidoggy

skankdelvar said:

The hunt for Mrs Merkel's carrot is on. 

Perhaps it's under Mrs Slocombe's pussy.

I don't think you'd need to search too far for Merkel's carrot.

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

skankdelvar said:

The hunt for Mrs Merkel's carrot is on. 

Perhaps it's under Mrs Slocombe's pussy.

I don't think you'd need to search too far for Merkel's carrot.

It's her stick you have to worry about ...

Gassage

Most importantly, cricket on Sat- opening bat played no shot at first 3 deliveries.

Bowler:

"We all know what you fucking well voted then, mate..."

Clarky

ThorpyFX said:

Fretwired said:

fretmeister said:

Ouch ... Frau Merkel is allegedly dangling a carrot - a special membership for the UK. So we may remain aftyer all.

Good..... this is what it should have been all along, if juncker hadn't been the arrogant unyielding prat that he is, DC wouldn't have called the referendum in the first place. Regardless of which side you sit it is clear the EU needs to reform, abandon its plans for a federal europe and return to its initial concept as a trading block, with ties that increase security.

Juncker is the root of all evil…

it's looking more and more like his ambitions for 'more Europe' could get scuppered

some folks within the top ranks of the EU are laying the Brexit result firmly with him

I think he wanted a Brexit win..

because the UK was a thorn in his side and he couldn't get rid of us quick enough..

Heartfeltdawn

skankdelvar said:

So is Chesterman fronting for the Daily Mail?

It would seem perhaps not. Zoopla (the company) issued a release stating that Chesterman's organisation of the challenge is a private matter in which Zoopla has no involvement. Which leads to some interesting possibilities:

* DMGT think that Chesterman's gone rogue

* DMGT are trying to hide their hand in matters

* DMGT are experiencing the old 'left hand, right hand problem'

Based on my knowledge of DMGT (they're an old client) it's probably the last option. Everyone runs round trying to keep Dacre happy while telling Jonathan (Rothermere) as little as possible. Lovely chap, Jonathan; quite bright but nowhere near as much fun as his father; the darling old chap pegged out on top of an oriental prostitute, y'know. 

Damn that Viagra! Robbed me of one of my best pals.

Absolutely left hand/right hand at the minute. The Times versus the Sunday Times is experiencing much of the same dilemma at the minute given the Times went for Remain and the ST is firmly behind Gove. 

Yes it is a private matter as the Zoopla statement says. But somehow I don't think we've heard the end of it. 

Might I suggest that the Mail has piled into Mishcon because of their links to Hacked Off? 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2379632/Hugh-Grant-blonde-lawyer-Hacked-Off-s-cosy-links-ruthless-law-firm-investigators-illegally-invaded-people-s-privacy.html

Getting Pendlebury in to write that indicates a level of dislike toward Mishcon. RP is well known for hacking opponents to bits into articles. His article list online makes for gory reading. 

paulmapp8306

fretmeister;1137923" said:

paulmapp8306 said:



ThorpyFX said:



Fretwired said:



ThorpyFX said:



ToneControl said:



ICBM said:

Someone needs to tell them that a majority of UK citizens did not express a desire to leave the EU.





AFAIK it was the single biggest ever mandate for a decision in UK history at 17.4m votes, but that's not enough?





We should have adopted a similar model to Australian referenda. I.e. all regions (england, wales, scotland and Northern Ireland)  have to agree to the split for it to be enacted. this would have saved the union from a split after the vote....





So 5 million Scots could stop 55 million people in England from doing what they want? You call that democracy. The next thing you'd get is a demand for independence for England. Bonkers ...










Not bonkers at all. It affects the Scots as much as it affects the English and the Welsh and the Northern Irish. For such a  monumental decision all regions should agree... otherwise you end up with an an unnecessary division and calls for a splitting of the Union as has been borne out. That being said, i don't agree with referendums anyway.





Tosh.  If you make it about regions, you making it about division.  Its about the whole of the UK - not which little bit of it wanted what.





Proportional Representation would be good thing. An end to protest votes, and better engagement with the voters because of it.

And a succession of week governments that will lead to.