Brexit legal challenge.

ICBM

fretmeister said:

You two are beginning to look like the proverbial bald men arguing over a comb. But worse than that - it's like neither of you had any hair, ever.

It is highly likely that MdR are impartial in that they are doing the work required by their own client and their own views don't come into it - in other words it is their CLIENT that is not impartial. Whereas Martin Howe is effectively his own client as he is supporting his own group.

The difference is rather obvious and important.

I think that's what I said, but in future I'll just shut up and let you deal with it .

And no, I have definitely never had any hair in a legal sense .

In relation to Martin Howe, didn't Dr. Johnson say that a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client?

fretmeister

ICBM said:

fretmeister said:

You two are beginning to look like the proverbial bald men arguing over a comb. But worse than that - it's like neither of you had any hair, ever.

It is highly likely that MdR are impartial in that they are doing the work required by their own client and their own views don't come into it - in other words it is their CLIENT that is not impartial. Whereas Martin Howe is effectively his own client as he is supporting his own group.

The difference is rather obvious and important.

I think that's what I said, but in future I'll just shut up and let you deal with it .

And no, I have definitely never had any hair in a legal sense .

In relation to Martin Howe, didn't Dr. Johnson say that a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client?

He did!

I don't even do my own debt recovery. I farm it out. Far too easy to get personal otherwise.

Fretwired

ICBM said:

Fretwired said:

As impartial as the law firm making the challenge

Not at all - Lawyers For Britain is a campaign organisation. Mishcon de Reya is a law firm acting on behalf of their clients - totally different.

Fretwired said:

But I guess as they are Leavers their opinion is worthless ... perhaps you could give your legal opinion on Martin Howe QC's comments.

Not one straw man but two . 1 - I never said their opinion was worthless, just suggested that they are not impartial. 2 - as you know I'm not a lawyer. Ask fretmeister - he is.

It's also worth paying attention to what he said earlier - if you want to leave the EU, it's better to do that in a legally sound way with all the 't's crossed and 'i's dotted. That means putting it to Parliament.

You said:

It's also deeply objectionable but sadly not unexpected that he should try to twist the views of those who want to see a truly democratic result to imply that they have a contempt for democracy.

I just posted it as another opinion - you just love twisting things with your all knowing sarcasm and sneering attitude to anyone with an opinion that differs from yours ... IMHO you're effectively saying his opinion is worthless as it's only motivated by his views (support for Brexit) and what you see as his contempt for democracy.

ICBM

Fretwired said:

I just posted it as another opinion - you just love twisting things with your all knowing sarcasm and sneering attitude to anyone with an opinion that differs from yours ... IMHO you're effectively saying his opinion is worthless as it's only motivated by his views (support for Brexit) and what you see as his contempt for democracy. 

No, that's the twist you choose to put on it. I do question his impartiality though. And I do very much think that him claiming contempt for democracy is hypocritical.

fretmeister

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

One day I will quote that back at you when you have a pop at SJW feminists

Fair cop .. :-)

Heartfeltdawn

How politics works:

-Jeremy Hunt said today that only 40% of those eligible voted against the proposed junior doctor contracts, thus casting aspersions on the legitimacy of the outcome.

-Percentage of eligible voters who voted Leave in EU Referendum: 37.4%.

-Statements from Hunt casting doubt on referendum legitimacy: 0.

>-

hungrymark

Heartfeltdawn;1139317" said:

How politics works:

-Jeremy Hunt said today that only 40% of those eligible voted against the proposed junior doctor contracts, thus casting aspersions on the legitimacy of the outcome.

-Percentage of eligible voters who voted Leave in EU Referendum: 37.4%.

-Statements from Hunt casting doubt on referendum legitimacy: 0.



>-

It works both ways, watch:

- Number of recent votes, as pointed out by my doctor-sympathetic friends on Facebook, where the majority of doctors who voted opted to reject the new contract, meaning that the government and people of this country should respect their wishes: 1

- Number of recent nationwide referenda that resulted in a majority of voters opting to leave the EU: 1

- Number of my doctor-sympathetic friends who have no problem with the decision to leave the EU because there is a democratic mandate: 0

chillidoggy

Fretwired said:

The commissioners have no problem with straight bananas, it's the crooked ones they don't like so much, but they have never banned them. As Commission Regulation (EC) 2257/94 puts it, bananas must be "free from malformation or abnormal curvature". In the case of "Extra class" bananas, there is no wiggle room, but Class 1 bananas can have "slight defects of shape", and Class 2 bananas can have full-on "defects of shape".

No attempt is made to define "abnormal curvature" in the case of bananas, which must lead to lots of arguments. Contrast the case of cucumbers (Commission Regulation (EEC) No 1677/88), where Class I and "Extra class" cucumbers are allowed a bend of 10mm per 10cm of length. Class II cucumbers can bend twice as much.

;-)

And it is precisely this complete load of tosh that pisses people off about the EU. I expect they had a special committee set up just to make the ruling. How much taxpayers money did it cost us for them to dream up that pile of shite?

The last time I went to a French farmers market I saw no such adherence to the EU banana regulations, nor come to think of it any other fruit or vegetable shape, or size. The farmers were selling whatever they grew, and no-one gave a shit.

Sporky

chillidoggy said:

The last time I went to a French farmers market I saw no such adherence to the EU banana regulations, nor come to think of it any other fruit or vegetable shape, or size. The farmers were selling whatever they grew, and no-one gave a shit.

The regulations apply to imports to the EU.

chillidoggy

Sporky said:

chillidoggy said:

The last time I went to a French farmers market I saw no such adherence to the EU banana regulations, nor come to think of it any other fruit or vegetable shape, or size. The farmers were selling whatever they grew, and no-one gave a shit.

The regulations apply to imports to the EU.

Fair enough, but why?

Sporky

I think the idea was to prevent growers from dumping the dross from their harvests on the single market. Or at least to provide grading so that if you're making banoffee pies you can buy lower grade 'cos you don't care about the shape, but if you're selling them as-is you get banana shaped bananas.

Nothing got banned, it was (as with a lot of EU stuff) a framework so that everyone could agree what sort of bananas they were going to end up with. I'm not convinced an awful lot of money (in the politics sense, not in the popping-down-to-the-sweetshop sense) got spent on it.

Clarky

Sporky said:

I think the idea was to prevent growers from dumping the dross from their harvests on the single market. Or at least to provide grading so that if you're making banoffee pies you can buy lower grade 'cos you don't care about the shape, but if you're selling them as-is you get banana shaped bananas.

Nothing got banned, it was (as with a lot of EU stuff) a framework so that everyone could agree what sort of bananas they were going to end up with. I'm not convinced an awful lot of money (in the politics sense, not in the popping-down-to-the-sweetshop sense) got spent on it.

I didn't think any EU countries had the right climate to grow banoffees so they'd have to be imported anyhow

Sporky

I don't like bananas at all, so frankly I have no horse* in this race.

*Not a ready-meal joke

Heartfeltdawn

hungrymark said:

It works both ways, watch:

- Number of recent votes, as pointed out by my doctor-sympathetic friends on Facebook, where the majority of doctors who voted opted to reject the new contract, meaning that the government and people of this country should respect their wishes: 1

- Number of recent nationwide referenda that resulted in a majority of voters opting to leave the EU: 1

- Number of my doctor-sympathetic friends who have no problem with the decision to leave the EU because there is a democratic mandate: 0

(and I genuinely LOL'd there). 

The best bit is that the JrDoc vote was as non-binding as the EU referendum and ultimately sod all to do with the voter. Just as the decision to invoke Article 50 rests with PM prerogative rather than being activated by a legal trigger within the referendum, there was no legal trigger in the JrDoc referendum and any action resulting from the vote is down to an executive decision by the Junior Doctors Committee. 

In the words of Jonathan Ross, that's democwacy, innit? 

Fuck voting. We should make all parties fight it out on the Gladiators television set. Last one standing gets it all. 

Evilmags

Clarky said:

Sporky said:

I think the idea was to prevent growers from dumping the dross from their harvests on the single market. Or at least to provide grading so that if you're making banoffee pies you can buy lower grade 'cos you don't care about the shape, but if you're selling them as-is you get banana shaped bananas.

Nothing got banned, it was (as with a lot of EU stuff) a framework so that everyone could agree what sort of bananas they were going to end up with. I'm not convinced an awful lot of money (in the politics sense, not in the popping-down-to-the-sweetshop sense) got spent on it.

I didn't think any EU countries had the right climate to grow banoffees so they'd have to be imported anyhow

Come through Spain and Portugal from Madiera and The Canaries. They are all clones of each other anyway and are about as natural as Skunk or Northern Lights 5 X Haze. New plantations are just branches from Banana trees buried with a bit of rooting hormone. 

ToneControl

Evilmags said:

Clarky said:

I didn't think any EU countries had the right climate to grow banoffees so they'd have to be imported anyhow

Come through Spain and Portugal from Madiera and The Canaries. They are all clones of each other anyway and are about as natural as Skunk or Northern Lights 5 X Haze. New plantations are just branches from Banana trees buried with a bit of rooting hormone. 

and most bananas sold in the EU are from cuttings from Chatsworth house in Derbyshire

Must be the source of many excellent pub quiz questions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavendish_banana

Fretwired

ICBM said:

Fretwired said:

I just posted it as another opinion - you just love twisting things with your all knowing sarcasm and sneering attitude to anyone with an opinion that differs from yours ... IMHO you're effectively saying his opinion is worthless as it's only motivated by his views (support for Brexit) and what you see as his contempt for democracy. 

No, that's the twist you choose to put on it. I do question his impartiality though. And I do very much think that him claiming contempt for democracy is hypocritical.

I never said he was being impartial. He is offering his opinion and I stated he was for Brexit. My complaint was the way in which it was derided by you - there was an air of arrogance. As I said I just posted it as 'an opinion' (check my original post). You attacked me as you've consistently attacked anyone else who doesn't share your views on the EU.

ToneControl

Evilmags said:

Clarky said:

Sporky said:

I think the idea was to prevent growers from dumping the dross from their harvests on the single market. Or at least to provide grading so that if you're making banoffee pies you can buy lower grade 'cos you don't care about the shape, but if you're selling them as-is you get banana shaped bananas.

Nothing got banned, it was (as with a lot of EU stuff) a framework so that everyone could agree what sort of bananas they were going to end up with. I'm not convinced an awful lot of money (in the politics sense, not in the popping-down-to-the-sweetshop sense) got spent on it.

I didn't think any EU countries had the right climate to grow banoffees so they'd have to be imported anyhow

Come through Spain and Portugal from Madiera and The Canaries. They are all clones of each other anyway and are about as natural as Skunk or Northern Lights 5 X Haze. New plantations are just branches from Banana trees buried with a bit of rooting hormone. 

and the largest EU land border is in Guyane in South America (French Guiana)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Guiana

They are part of the Eurozone, but sadly grow very little

The French must have arrived too late in the Americas

Clarky

ToneControl said:

Evilmags said:

Clarky said:

Sporky said:

I think the idea was to prevent growers from dumping the dross from their harvests on the single market. Or at least to provide grading so that if you're making banoffee pies you can buy lower grade 'cos you don't care about the shape, but if you're selling them as-is you get banana shaped bananas.

Nothing got banned, it was (as with a lot of EU stuff) a framework so that everyone could agree what sort of bananas they were going to end up with. I'm not convinced an awful lot of money (in the politics sense, not in the popping-down-to-the-sweetshop sense) got spent on it.

I didn't think any EU countries had the right climate to grow banoffees so they'd have to be imported anyhow

Come through Spain and Portugal from Madiera and The Canaries. They are all clones of each other anyway and are about as natural as Skunk or Northern Lights 5 X Haze. New plantations are just branches from Banana trees buried with a bit of rooting hormone. 

and the largest EU land border is in Guyane in South America (French Guiana)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Guiana

They are part of the Eurozone, but sadly grow very little

The French must have arrived too late in the Americas

maybe there's an opportunity here…

I'm off to the garden centre to look for banoffee plants