Serious Post from me- Family rifts.

TTony

Gassage said:

Her voting to leave has also incensed me. It was so inconsiderate of her when I pick up the tab for her house and now a lot of my earning streams are threatened.

That could be read as you thinking she should have voted as you told her to because you paid for that vote ...

Ro_S

A few weeks ago my father 'announced' that he was "loosely racist" and he seemed to be proud of it.  It transpired that he actually meant xenophobic.

Either way I was shocked.  

Ro_S

Dominic said:

 more has happened and changed in 20 years than it did  from 1700 to 1900

That's rather overstating the case, but I get your sentiment.

Emp_Fab

She's your mum.  Accept that she can be whoever she wants to be, as you can be whoever the fuck you want to be at her age.  Don't cut her off.  Have a chat - a CALM chat - and just explain that you don't share her views on immigrants and it would be so much more pleasant for the two of you if she kept her opinions to herself on that subject when the two of you are together.

She'll be gone soon enough, and you will be left with thoughts about your behaviour towards her.  She was perfectly entitled to vote however she felt without any consideration for anyone else - you included.  She's more than likely given priority to everybody else's feelings and wants in the family all her life - cut her some slack ffs.  My mum also comes out with some corkers, but I love her and, she's not running for Prime Minister, so her sphere of influence is pretty tiny.

Don't be a dick.  You have umpteen years ahead of you.  She can see the end of her life approaching.  Don't let her spend the latter part of her time being rejected by her son over a fucking referendum vote, differences in personal opinions (that she is perfectly entitled to), and the fact that you put her on some intelligence pedestal. 

quarky

I think it is outrageous to not speak to family because of the way they vote. I have family who voted Labour at the last election and I still speak to them. Not speaking to someone because of political allegiance? Stalin would be proud.

@Lloyds post is spot on. Agree not to talk about it. I understand distaste for racism, but I would just make it clear that you disagree strongly, and she needs to understand that you won't talk about it they want to continue the relationship.

It is a crap position to be in, because family are difficult and in your life for a very long time. Parents don't seem to understand that you have your own life to live, it isn't theirs to live vicariously.

camf

So is it best to let these old people die in ignorance of how stupid their views are? I'm getting old... I hope if I'm being a selfish, racist dickhead at any stage, someone will care enough about me to try and stop me being an objectional ****wit. I don't think being old gives you the right to opt out of being reasonable and tolerant. James, I don't know how you challenge these views, but I wish you luck and hope you can find a way.

ToneControl

WezV said:

My mum says she is allowed to be racist because a group of Asian lads were mean to her once. But the real reason I cant be bothered is she has only seen my 4 year old 3 or 4 times, and still hasn't bothered to see my 9 week old despite visiting the town I live in twice in that time, and cancelling on us both times.

I found that 50% of grandparents are half-arsed. My mate cried when he told me about  his parents not giving a shit about  visiting his kids. My parents were the same.  We should have a thread about this, it's a proper thing that people should know about

jellyroll

Take a deep breath. Count to 10. Change the subject.

My mum comes out with a load of shit too - opinion delivered as incontrovertible fact. 

Be  a good son and keep schtum. You'll never alter her views.

littlegreenman

My Dad's a proper old school Alf Garnett style bigot. He knows that everyone's an equal in the grand scheme of things but can't get his head around modern Britain. Even without asking, I know he voted Leave. Me and my siblings have always had to keep his language in check sometimes in public regarding "foreigners".

Thing is, he's 70-odd and grew up in a very different time. Grammar schools, jobs for life, jumpers for goalposts, final salary pensions, etc...

But then on the other hand, he went to Download last year, on his own! And had no problems at all mingling with everyone there. Made a lot of new Facebook friends who think he's great, many of whom are fit young Eastern Europeans! Life in the old dog yet, and surprised both us and himself. He still doesn't like Latvians though, they apparently made up a large part of the SS.

We choose to keep the old man around and accept that we're always going to disagree on some stuff. Even if the old fool does talk a load of bollocks sometimes. He's the only father I'll ever have, so if I can keep it civil and have a beer without any drama, then I'd prefer that.


 

TheBlueWolf

My view is that people are entitled to an opinion, even if their opinions are objectionable. So I'm going to agree that you should have a calm chat with her, explaining why her views offend you. Perhaps she may agree not to voice certain opinions in front of you?

You don't get to be mad at what she voted for though. All voters can decide how they vote, including you. If a family member got mad at you because you didn't vote the way *they* told you how would you react?

mgaw

well James unless you are sure you wont regret not seeing out your parents time well, if not your mums then you dads, then i would climb down from that High Horse you are sat on and get with the programme fella.

Especially as your ailing father will be fully aware of the tension, sometimes we have to just take the shit for the "greater good".

if it helps a recent family situation involving my lot, part of a not insignificant family business being effectively given to my Sister (1 of four kids) whilst the rest of us are told to "deal with it"...(she will benefit to the tune of £30000 per year of unearned income for life plus capital appreciation etc)...I recognised pretty quickly that there was nowt i could change so i just accept it and compartmentalise it in my brain....parents v parents + business    not easy

try the same trick with Mum + Old stressed racist out voter Mum....

ToneControl

Gassage said:

holnrew said:

For real though I didn't speak to my mum for four years, sometimes some space is what's needed. 

Not easy when my Dad is dying in her arms, albeit it slowly, so to speak.

I've found that it 's a simple fact that some older folk  are not very diplomatic when they express their shock at the way the country has changed with the large amount of immigration. Their mores and etiquette are from a different era. I am wary of interpreting  the words of the elderly against the current mainstream rules for allowable articulations of opinion, since many old folk were not educated  or experienced in  the current era, and  I  assume they are simply unintentionally expressing their discomfort in a way which now offends. As pointed out, some may be suffering from cognitive disorders, but  I assume that most are simply out of their depth in a changed country

Strangely, this is even more apparent  in less immigated areas such as rural Northern Ireland-  perhaps over time, familiarity breeds acceptance (I'd assume if people mix)

I'd advise not making it a defining issue. I think most old folk just want to express their dismay at the way their world has been changed, but they are not able to express this in a way that does not offend the modern ear. I she an unkind person? I'd assume not, so I'd try to build a view  based  her age-related-perspective-constraints, and try to change the subject 

Having said that, if she's arsey to foreign medical staff, kick her up the arse

rlw

Emp_Fab said:

She's your mum.  Accept that she can be whoever she wants to be, as you can be whoever the fuck you want to be at her age.  Don't cut her off.  Have a chat - a CALM chat - and just explain that you don't share her views on immigrants and it would be so much more pleasant for the two of you if she kept her opinions to herself on that subject when the two of you are together.

She'll be gone soon enough, and you will be left with thoughts about your behaviour towards her.  She was perfectly entitled to vote however she felt without any consideration for anyone else - you included.  She's more than likely given priority to everybody else's feelings and wants in the family all her life - cut her some slack ffs.  My mum also comes out with some corkers, but I love her and, she's not running for Prime Minister, so her sphere of influence is pretty tiny.

Don't be a dick.  You have umpteen years ahead of you.  She can see the end of her life approaching.  Don't let her spend the latter part of her time being rejected by her son over a fucking referendum vote, differences in personal opinions (that she is perfectly entitled to), and the fact that you put her on some intelligence pedestal. 




THIS

blueskunk

Take her out for a curry ?

JezWynd

I hear a lot of people saying 'old people are so selfish, they voted to suit themselves'. But if you take the time to hear their point of view, they very often voted leave because they feel that it will be the best outcome for the younger generation in years to come. And who's to say they aren't right?

Nunogilberto

During the run up to the referendum (and indeed following the result), I saw a good few instances on social media of one set of voters (mainly remain voters) haranguing and hassling their opposites, trying to change their minds and eventually unfriending them. These are the same people who usually preach tolerance etc. Without making assumptions and simply going by what the OP has written, he is straying into similar territory. At the end of the day, family and friends are just that, regardless of political persuasion - you simply HAVE to put those differences aside. For me, it's a generational thing. Those of a certain age often hold views that many of us younger types see as bigoted, outdated and even racist. As disagreeable as these views may be, I'm not about to disassociate with everyone I know over 50, or insist that they are all convicted of thought crime. Agree to disagree, as hard as it may be, and leave it there. As Emp said above, one day, it'll be too late to reconcile your differences.

Philly_Q

ToneControl said:

I've found that it 's a simple fact that some older folk  are not very diplomatic when they express their shock at the way the country has changed with the large amount of immigration. Their mores and etiquette are from a different era. I am wary of interpreting  the words of the elderly against the current mainstream rules for allowable articulations of opinion, since many old folk were not educated  or experienced in  the current era, and  I  assume they are simply unintentionally expressing their discomfort in a way which now offends. As pointed out, some may be suffering from cognitive disorders, but  I assume that most are simply out of their depth in a changed country.

I agree with this.  They grew up in, quite literally, a different world and - unless their own life experiences have taught them to see things another way - they simply don't understand that those old-fashioned viewpoints and language are regarded as offensive nowadays.

I've often cringed when my dad has used words like "negro" and "negress", but there's genuinely no offence intended.  Indeed, he grew up thinking those were the correct, non-offensive terms to use.  That said, the other day he did say - rather cautiously - that he wished there weren't quite so many "coloured lads" in the England football team.  I just said dad, they were all born in England, the same as you....

Incidentally, he didn't vote leave in the referendum.

professorben

Gassage said:

Iamnobody said:

Your Mum's vote hasn't potentially affected your income streams - over half the voting public have...

Yes, but I thought she was intelligent. That's the thing.

I have this opinion of religious people.
but in all seriousness, I have never really had much of a relationship with my mum, I find her thoughts, views and actions out of sync with my own, I moved out at 16.......
recently ive made the effort to reconnect for the sake of my little boy, his other grandmother lives in Cz so I figured it's worth putting up with her nonsense for him to have a nana.
i bite my tongue A LOT!!!!!!
ive come to realise, not every leave voter is a racist bigot, not every remain voter is an enlightened soul.
i feel the rule of never discussing sex, religion or politics at the dinner table holds true elsewhere.
i resent my mum for the choices she made that directly, negatively affected my life, but it's done, I'm a grown up not a child, I'm not gonna cry about it, she's my mother, she( somehow I don't know) managed to raise me to the point I could stand on my own two feet, she didn't do the best but it could have been worse.
in a way, resenting your mum for her beliefs is almost as bad as the resentment she holds towards those 'Polish Muslims' 
my advce, don't talk about politics, don't discuss minority groups, Bake-off is pretty safe, maybe the Nolans.......
in short, she's your mum, you choose your friends, you can't pick your family, but blood is blood.
smile, nod, bite your tongue, keep the peace, im sure that would mean more to your dad at this point in his life than anything.

Clarky

@Gassage somethings are just worth biting your lip over…
my mum is in Spain and my dad is in Australia

when I'm with her, my mum does my head in at times and I can't wait to get home
but once I'm home I miss her..
my dad is awesome but is so far away it's like he's on a different planet..
and I miss the crap out of him [and my lil' bro]

I can go years without seeing my parents.. and they ain't young anymore
I wish I could see them much more often.. even with the 'doing my head in' stuff

one day your parents will be gone..
do not look back with regret
just try to ignore the things you don't like hearing and try to change the subject..
and when you visit, take the kids with you and encourage her to make a fuss.. 

Wazmeister

James,

They are all just opinions. 

Your Moms view as she has seen maybe her country change and decline, over many years. 

She's seen her young lover/man/friend/husband grow ill, and decline too.

Dont make a stand on 'your' own views; love is bigger than making a stand on your own politics and gender views.

Hard as it is my friend, show some grace and humility...