Serious Post from me- Family rifts.

octatonic

I've never been one to make special allowances for family.
If behaviour is abhorrent then family don't get a special pass from me.
I didn't choose them and I don't see why objectionable behaviour you wouldn't tolerate from a friend gets allowed because they just happen to be related.
Consequently there are a couple of family members that I don't speak to by choice and one that I won't be in the same room with.

But we all have different relationships with our family so I don't judge another for making choices.

tone1

In times like these, I think to myself..What would Peggy Mitchell do? She'd say 'it's Family.' It seems a shame to let this vote spoil your family life, seeing how close to the finish line your Parents may be.. My Mum's very similar by the sounds of it..Bit like Nan from the Catherine Tate show. In some Countries, people aren't allowed to have an opinion in fear of something terrible happening to them..We should celebrate our differences, as this what makes us Great.

Sporky

TheBlueWolf said:

My view is that people are entitled to an opinion, even if their opinions are objectionable.

Mine is that people have opinions; I'm not keen on this entitlement thing as it heads towards validating any opinion.

However, basic manners dictate that you don't express every opinion in every situation. As a simple example, let's say you don't like a particular guitar. A friend says "I'm thinking of buying one of these"; at that point, saying you don't like it is fine. A friend says "I've just bought one of these" - at that point it's not so fine to piss on their chips.

Having opinions is one thing, articulating them willy-nilly is another.

CabbageCat

Sounds a bit like my mum. She was very much a hippy when I was growing up and also voted leave when I voted remain. Never crossed my mind that I should be falling out with her over it. Thanks for the heads up. I'll drop her an email to let her know.

Alnico

Everything my Mum has come out with since i was 15 is batshit crazy. She's a lovely person but i stopped listening to her decades ago.
She voted leave and i couldn't care less so we're all normal.

If it matters to you then just go and face her with it but i wouldn't expect an ounce of sense if i was going to my Mum with the same feelings. 
She's from a different era and thinks differently. She's never accepted that about me but i did about her a long time ago.

quarky

My parents voted "remain" because the EU ended war after WW2. Yet they have no problem about making intolerant comments about my wife (who is from Eastern Europe).

I might not talk to them because of the latter, but not the former.

octatonic

quarky said:

My parents voted "remain" because the EU ended war after WW2. Yet they have no problem about making intolerant comments about my wife (who is from Eastern Europe).

I might not talk to them because of the latter, but not the former.

"Bloody foreigners. Coming over here, making our son happy."

ennspek

Suck it up for your father's sake. Missing time with him, which you won't get back, over the referendum would be a tragic waste.
Deal with the racism later if you feel you must but right now your father is the priority surely?

camf

There's a lot of fair points above, especially giving some leaway to family members when things are difficult, but I really don't get it when people say the elderly have to be respected because they are old. So what if someone's old? It's not your age that should be respected, it's how you carry yourself as a human being, the values you have and the way you treat other people. If you're a stupid, narrow-minded, old bigot or racist, you deserve not one bit more respect than a stupid, narrow-minded, young bigot or racist. It doesn't matter the age, I think you have a life-long personal responsibility to earn respect.

richardhomer

I have a sister 20 years older than me. She holds views which I don't agree with - but a sense of (almost tribal) nationalism seems an innate part of her (and older) generations. Even foreign travel was rare when she was growing up - due to its cost as much as anything - so attitudes to 'Johnny Foreigner' are oddly entrenched in her. I should point out she's a retired law lecturer - with a masters degree. She's far from stupid.

As my closest surviving blood relative apart from my son, I've come to accept that gently trying to nudge her in the right direction is as far as I can go. Other than my influence on my son, I have come to accept that the only person whose attitudes and values I am responsible for, are my own.

While you may dislike her views, it does not undermine what she has done for you as a mother - I feel late in her life it would be quite wrong to ostracise her.

ToneControl

not sure I knew the definition, I looked it up, and it's a bit ironic:

Bigot

1. a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.

Sporky

I s'pose that brings up the old question of whether it's intolerant to be intolerant of intolerance, or if that's more like whether a catalogue of books that aren't catalogued should include itself.

CabbageCat

richardhomer said:

I have a sister 20 years older than me. She holds views which I don't agree with - but a sense of (almost tribal) nationalism seems an innate part of her (and older) generations.

The whole brexit debacle has become tribal. It's Team Leave vs Team Remain, the issues have ceased mattering since the whistle has blown so it's all points-scoring now. The more riled up people get during the post vote arguments, the more emotional investment they give their team.

Those who are very competitive and stubborn might even get to a point where they value their team allegiance more than they do their own family, strange as it might seem.

CabbageCat

Sporky said:

I s'pose that brings up the old question of whether it's intolerant to be intolerant of intolerance, or if that's more like whether a catalogue of books that aren't catalogued should include itself.

I think there's positive bigotry and negative bigotry. It's up to the individual bigot to decide which their own brand is.

octatonic

ToneControl said:

not sure I knew the definition, I looked it up, and it's a bit ironic:

Bigot

1. a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.

Tolerance isn't being tolerant of those with intolerant views.
People who justify their racism by saying they have a right to be racist are simply assholes.

Sporky

Also depends which dictionaries you check. I've had a look through two paper ones and six online ones and can't find the one ToneControl did. Generally the definition is more "intolerance of different religions or races", but he got 4 Wisdoms to my two LOLs so the one he found is clearly more appealing here.

Handsome_Chris

@Gassage , this may sound a bit strident however, I find your posts display a complete lack of self-awareness.  Having read your recent posts on here, you come across as one of the most hateful people I have met.  I am actually surprised that your hate preaching has been allowed on this forum, but for some reason, you get a free pass around here.  Maybe it's because people exercise tolerance and understanding?

As a guy in his mid fifties you should know better, be a bit more calm.  Alternatively, you can stand by you beliefs and never see your mum and dad again:  a bit of a pyrrhic victory, but a victory none the less.

On the other hand, you've managed to start a thread in which @Emp_Fab makes a post that paints him as a walking continent of common sense.

ourmaninthenorth

Next week, after years of bitter estrangement, I'll get to see my younger sister who's over from NZ...My Mum and Dad don't know she's in the country, and we're going to surprise the living bejesus out of them. Parents that for years I had the hump with over something, years of non dialogue. I also have an elder sister that I haven't spoken to for a decade. Believe me, in the silence, the war went on. 

My dad had a stroke earlier on in the year - I counted my blessings that I was around to play a part in his recovery, rather than the anger ridden sidelines that I've occupied for years. 

So next week, a family, despite not sharing much common ground, will get together for the common good...it might be the last time my parents see all their kids together in the same room. It's an important moment for us all, and I'm just about grown up enough to swallow a bit to play a part in it.

All the best James...these situations are difficult. My one regret is slamming the door a little bit too tight shut, and barricading the bastid. I should have left it slightly ajar, and that is completely down to me. 

Handsome_Chris

Sporky said:

Also depends which dictionaries you check. I've had a look through two paper ones and six online ones and can't find the one ToneControl did. Generally the definition is more "intolerance of different religions or races", but he got 4 Wisdoms to my two LOLs so the one he found is clearly more appealing here.

Bigot

@Sporky, GIYF

DLM

@Sporky: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de/definition/englisch/bigot