Pricing of vintage guitars

musicman100

This is a topic that I always find interesting and It does make me wonder where some people get thier prices from.
It's such a minefield and I feel for anyone wanting to get into vintage guitars.
As mentioned before we all know that just because a guitar is old it doesn't mean it a good guitar, but the more I look at prices/adverts it just seemed to be getting silly and to the point that people will stick a premium on relating to its age Regardless of condition and originality and then comes the fact that some seller asking strong money don't even have the knowledge of the guitar.
I had a bloke offer me a late 60s gretsch tennessean recently. 
He was wanting top dollar but he didn't know it's exact age he tried telling me that is was all original and when I told him that the machine heads had been changed he tried getting clever.
This is just my opinion of course but I look at the prices of a lot of vintage guitars now n the issues that a lot have and then compare them to new/reissue guitars and I wonder why we bother.
Yes I know a new guitar doesn't have the mojo but at least you know what your buying and I think with vintages guitars it's more of an overall experience your buying, the mojo, history and the romance. 

mikeyrob73

"He was wanting top dollar but he didn't know it's exact age he tried telling me that is was all original and when I told him that the machine heads had been changed he tried getting cleaver" 

if he got a Cleaver i would leg it mate :-) 

musicman100

mikeyrob73 said:

"He was wanting top dollar but he didn't know it's exact age he tried telling me that is was all original and when I told him that the machine heads had been changed he tried getting cleaver" 

if he got a Cleaver i would leg it mate :-) 

Ha ha

JookyChap

The worrying thing is after the last few Vintage threads, I took 'cleaver' at face value and wasn't surprised in the least...

Bygone_Tones

musicman100 said:

This is a topic that I always find interesting and It does make me wonder where some people get thier prices from.
It's such a minefield and I feel for anyone wanting to get into vintage guitars.
As mentioned before we all know that just because a guitar is old it doesn't mean it a good guitar, but the more I look at prices/adverts it just seemed to be getting silly and to the point that people will stick a premium on relating to its age Regardless of condition and originality and then comes the fact that some seller asking strong money don't even have the knowledge of the guitar.
I had a bloke offer me a late 60s gretsch tennessean recently. 
He was wanting top dollar but he didn't know it's exact age he tried telling me that is was all original and when I told him that the machine heads had been changed he tried getting clever.
This is just my opinion of course but I look at the prices of a lot of vintage guitars now n the issues that a lot have and then compare them to new/reissue guitars and I wonder why we bother.
Yes I know a new guitar doesn't have the mojo but at least you know what your buying and I think with vintages guitars it's more of an overall experience your buying, the mojo, history and the romance. 

"caveat emptor"

I think you hit the nail on the head with that post really. players and collectors are two very different types of people. collectors want originality and mint as much as possible, and those are the factors that make a vintage item worth big money. If it is not 100% original and not near mint, then it is unlikely to be a valuable item, and is only something that a player will want.

However people selling will always want as much money as they can for their gear, so when you are buying always do your homework first. On both the seller, and the item. If it is priced too high, or the seller has a bad reputation, then pass on it.

Condition is critical to the value of vintage gear. Yet most people will see something sell on ebay "the same as theirs" and then they will want exactly the same price for theirs, event though theirs might be in far worse condition.

welshboyo

Not to be the getting cleaver guy - what machineheads should a 60's Tennessean have?

Only interested to hear your expert thoughts as I have one...not for sale though

Skipped

There are 'Bursts and V's and Explorers. And then there are vintage guitars.

If you convert a Historic 355 into Dollars, even at todays exchange rates, you are in the ballpark of the actual vintage guitar that the "Replica Made by Gibson" is attempting to imitate.......assuming that the vintage guitar has had normal/routine essential maintenance (refret....new nut.....etc).

Who would choose to buy a  Replica Faberge Egg if the price is in the same ball park as the real thing?

fretfinder

Skipped said:

There are 'Bursts and V's and Explorers. And then there are vintage guitars.

If you convert a Historic 355 into Dollars, even at todays exchange rates, you are in the ballpark of the actual vintage guitar that the "Replica Made by Gibson" is attempting to imitate.......assuming that the vintage guitar has had normal/routine essential maintenance (refret....new nut.....etc).

Who would choose to buy a  Replica Faberge Egg if the price is in the same ball park as the real thing?

That just shows that there are still a few pockets of value in vintage guitars, LP Jrs being another. Do that calculation with Bursts, Strats or Teles and I reckon you'd get a very different result.

Skipped

fretfinder said:

 Do that calculation with Bursts, Strats or Teles and I reckon you'd get a very different result.

Indeed you would but that is because the Strat and the Tele are Collectable. (The 'Burst needs a  category of it's own). It is unfair to compare the price of a Collectable guitar and a non Collectable guitar.
If you remove the Collectable element it is much more interesting. For example a refinished vintage guitar has new paint. A Masterbuilt Replica (made by Fender) also has New Paint.

I know and trust the seller in the links below. I will bet you that both of these guitars are fine instruments and that it would be hard to imagine choosing a Masterbuilt Fender guitar over either of these......for similar money.

A Masterbuilt Fender is a pretend vintage guitar.

http://davesguitar.com/products/fender/strat-64-3/

http://davesguitar.com/products/fender/strat-57/ 

IvisonGuitars

Skipped said:

There are 'Bursts and V's and Explorers. And then there are vintage guitars.

If you convert a Historic 355 into Dollars, even at todays exchange rates, you are in the ballpark of the actual vintage guitar that the "Replica Made by Gibson" is attempting to imitate.......assuming that the vintage guitar has had normal/routine essential maintenance (refret....new nut.....etc).

Who would choose to buy a  Replica Faberge Egg if the price is in the same ball park as the real thing?

Spot on.

fretfinder said:

Skipped said:

There are 'Bursts and V's and Explorers. And then there are vintage guitars.

If you convert a Historic 355 into Dollars, even at todays exchange rates, you are in the ballpark of the actual vintage guitar that the "Replica Made by Gibson" is attempting to imitate.......assuming that the vintage guitar has had normal/routine essential maintenance (refret....new nut.....etc).

Who would choose to buy a  Replica Faberge Egg if the price is in the same ball park as the real thing?

That just shows that there are still a few pockets of value in vintage guitars, LP Jrs being another. Do that calculation with Bursts, Strats or Teles and I reckon you'd get a very different result.

100% Original Juniors are still the best value 'Golden Era' Gibson's available.

However, if you are prepared to get into 'player grade' vintage (headstock break, refinish, changed parts), suddenly you have much more choice and some very desirable vintage guitars become available for not much more than reissues. I know this for a fact as I've just picked up 2 of my 'holy grail' guitars which would normally be TOTALLY out of my league financially but with some small (IMO) issues, I paid not much more than the new price of the equivalent reissue. It's a no brainer for me.

Regarding the pricing of vintage guitars....it is ALL over the shop at the minute, people are just asking for whatever they think they can get. There's no rhyme nor reason to it currently. 

meltedbuzzbox

Do people not buy guitars based on how they play any more? 

£4k+ on what was a low entry/student model junior does not represent value for me. The year it is made should be irrelevant. You can buy a custom shop one for half the price and pick your colour. Stick a Mojo p90 in it and you have a great guitar that sounds correct.Or buy a luthier made one or another manufacturer alternative.

All my opinion of course

pmg

miserneil said:

Skipped said:

There are 'Bursts and V's and Explorers. And then there are vintage guitars.

If you convert a Historic 355 into Dollars, even at todays exchange rates, you are in the ballpark of the actual vintage guitar that the "Replica Made by Gibson" is attempting to imitate.......assuming that the vintage guitar has had normal/routine essential maintenance (refret....new nut.....etc).

Who would choose to buy a  Replica Faberge Egg if the price is in the same ball park as the real thing?

Spot on.

fretfinder said:

Skipped said:

There are 'Bursts and V's and Explorers. And then there are vintage guitars.

If you convert a Historic 355 into Dollars, even at todays exchange rates, you are in the ballpark of the actual vintage guitar that the "Replica Made by Gibson" is attempting to imitate.......assuming that the vintage guitar has had normal/routine essential maintenance (refret....new nut.....etc).

Who would choose to buy a  Replica Faberge Egg if the price is in the same ball park as the real thing?

That just shows that there are still a few pockets of value in vintage guitars, LP Jrs being another. Do that calculation with Bursts, Strats or Teles and I reckon you'd get a very different result.

100% Original Juniors are still the best value 'Golden Era' Gibson's available.

However, if you are prepared to get into 'player grade' vintage (headstock break, refinish, changed parts), suddenly you have much more choice and some very desirable vintage guitars become available for not much more than reissues. I know this for a fact as I've just picked up 2 of my 'holy grail' guitars which would normally be TOTALLY out of my league financially but with some small (IMO) issues, I paid not much more than the new price of the equivalent reissue. It's a no brainer for me.

Regarding the pricing of vintage guitars....it is ALL over the shop at the minute, people are just asking for whatever they think they can get. There's no rhyme nor reason to it currently. 

So what the going rate for 60s 355s and 50s LP JNRS?

IvisonGuitars

@pmg I'm not clued up on 335's to be honest but a nice, all original single or double cut junior will set you back around £4k currently.

But it's a buyers market, if you have the cash and are ready to go, as always, deals can be done.

armitaan

Skipped said:

There are 'Bursts and V's and Explorers. And then there are vintage guitars.

If you convert a Historic 355 into Dollars, even at todays exchange rates, you are in the ballpark of the actual vintage guitar that the "Replica Made by Gibson" is attempting to imitate.......assuming that the vintage guitar has had normal/routine essential maintenance (refret....new nut.....etc).

Who would choose to buy a  Replica Faberge Egg if the price is in the same ball park as the real thing?

Think I'm just a contrary character but my experience is that I would: I've got a tele, strat and les Paul type all luthier made as wanted something handmade with skill and care rather than something that came off a production line . I'm def in the camp that thinks quality of guitars now better than ever before, who knows, maybe some of these guitars today will be seen as the vintage golden era further down the line....

marantz1300

Do people pay asking prices?

I can't afford to buy anything vintage.

peteri

I would just like to echo the above.

Player grade is where it's at, for example - I've just bought a refin 66 strat for less than the pickups alone should sell for according to Reverb.com.

And also agree - Juniors are the way to go!

musicman100

welshboyo said:

Not to be the getting cleaver guy - what machineheads should a 60's Tennessean have?

Only interested to hear your expert thoughts as I have one...not for sale though

<a href="http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/davidmountan123/media/gretsch-Tennessean-1965-Walnut-big_zpsso1lfjpg.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w494/davidmountan123/gretsch-Tennessean-1965-Walnut-big_zpsso1lfjpg.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo gretsch-Tennessean-1965-Walnut-big_zpsso1lfjpg.jpg"/></a>

musicman100

peteri said:

I would just like to echo the above.

Player grade is where it's at, for example - I've just bought a refin 66 strat for less than the pickups alone should sell for according to Reverb.com.

And also agree - Juniors are the way to go!

Jr's are is an awful amount of money for what was a student level guitar.

Paul_C

armitaan said:

Skipped said:

There are 'Bursts and V's and Explorers. And then there are vintage guitars.

If you convert a Historic 355 into Dollars, even at todays exchange rates, you are in the ballpark of the actual vintage guitar that the "Replica Made by Gibson" is attempting to imitate.......assuming that the vintage guitar has had normal/routine essential maintenance (refret....new nut.....etc).

Who would choose to buy a  Replica Faberge Egg if the price is in the same ball park as the real thing?

Think I'm just a contrary character but my experience is that I would: I've got a tele, strat and les Paul type all luthier made as wanted something handmade with skill and care rather than something that came off a production line . I'm def in the camp that thinks quality of guitars now better than ever before, who knows, maybe some of these guitars today will be seen as the vintage golden era further down the line....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coronation-Faberge-Egg-replica-Russian-Imperial-style-Saint-Petersburg-9-5-cm-/262691975971 

Skipped

pmg said:

So what the going rate for 60s 355s and 50s LP JNRS?

A forum member posted a NGD for a mid sixties 355 not long ago, Maybe he will chip in.

Here is a 345 at a long established vintage guitar dealer that I have bought from in the past.
https://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-es-345-1965-cherry-sunburst

Here is another one offered by  the guy that runs es-335.org and has probably seen more Es guitars than the rest of us put together.
https://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-es-345-1964-red
 

IvisonGuitars

musicman100 said:

peteri said:

I would just like to echo the above.

Player grade is where it's at, for example - I've just bought a refin 66 strat for less than the pickups alone should sell for according to Reverb.com.

And also agree - Juniors are the way to go!

Jr's are is an awful amount of money for what was a student level guitar.

Ah ha, but have you ever played an awesome 50's Junior?